DMT Aligner right for my needs?

[benhar]

Finally decided to stop lurking and ask a question...

My Spyderco Native is past due for a sharpening. My free-hand isn't good enough to attempt on the Spyderco, so I've decided to invest in a good guide system to get it and my other knives up to snuff. I had a Lansky Deluxe on order but cancelled it after reading about the DMT Aligner. Now I want to make sure the Aligner is what I need before making an order, and am hoping to get some opinions based on my intended use.

Aside from my Smith's 3-stone triangle, this will be my only sharpening kit. I don't plan to sharpen too often, but when I do I want to make sure it's done right. Right now I'm leaning towards the DMT mainly because it looks easier/quicker to set up than the Lansky, I like the convenience of not using oil, and it seems better suited for a non-mounted setup. I also would like to eventually get better at freehand, and my understanding is that the Aligner can help with that. This will be used for pocket knives, kitchen knifes, and an ESEE 4.

All that said, is there any reason for me to consider the Lansky over the DMT? Since I'm only buying system I'm not considering the Sharpmaker, plus I'd really like to keep it as little over $35 as possible. I will not sharpen enough to justify the cost of an EdgePro.

Also, where is the cheapest place to buy the Aligner? I found it for $43 on Amazon, $13 more than I would have paid for the Lansky.

Thanks!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I don't think you'll be disappointed with the Aligner kit. It should serve well, for your needs and budget.

A significant 'plus' I've noticed, with DMT's Aligner clamp, is that it's more comfortable to hold in hand, while sharpening. I have and use both the Lansky (diamond kit) and a Aligner/Magna-Guide setup with Dia-Folds. I also have a Gatco diamond kit, but haven't used it as much. I've commented before, on how the Aligner setup seems more intuitive & natural, in terms of duplicating/emulating a freehand stroke with the Dia-Folds. The Aligner clamp can also be used with a bench hone (DMT has some demo videos illustrating how), and I think it's likely better suited for this too, compared to other clamps.

DMT's hones are also excellent, across the board. In terms of the quality of the abrasive, they can't be beat for the money.

Each system has it's own advantages & disadvantages, as compared to any other. I do like the Lansky in particular, for sharpening very small blades (down to the size of a pen blade on a SAK, for example). The Lansky clamp is better at holding small blades more securely. I tend to use it for sharpening most/all of my 'traditional' pocket knives, for this reason (did another one yesterday, in fact). The small size of the Lansky hone is sometimes a better fit on a small blade; it affords a more delicate touch, especially at the tip of the blade. A larger hone might feel a bit awkward in a guided/clamped setup, with a very small blade.

Knifecenter (a BF member) has a couple of Aligner kits. One is a 'Quick Edge' kit (2 hones, coarse & fine, a clamp & guide, and carry case) at $38.95, and the other is a 'Deluxe' kit (3 hones, C/F/EF, clamp & guide, and carry case) at $46.95. They also have a lot of other DMT products, including the Magna-Guide/Dia-Fold kits.

 

[Facebacon]

id say go for the magna gide same thing just comes with diafolds

 

[benhar]

Thanks for the help. The Magna Guide is tempting me as well, except then I'm looking at double the cost of the Lansky before shipping. But like I said, it IS tempting me...

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

You can get a lot done with just a C/F Dia-Fold, to start out. I think it's the most versatile combo from DMT; coarse enough to repair or re-bevel a damaged edge, and the fine will leave an excellent working edge. You can upgrade to other Dia-Folds at your convenience (if you want them).

The clamp & Magna-Guide can be purchased separately, in it's own kit (this is how I got mine). These two links from Knifecenter might minimize the initial cost of setting up:
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/DMTDMG/dmt-dmg-diafold-magna-guide-sharpening-accessory
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/DM...se-Limited-Time-FREE-Serrated-Knife-Sharpener

 

[pertinux]

You can get a lot done with just a C/F Dia-Fold, to start out. I think it's the most versatile combo from DMT; coarse enough to repair or re-bevel a damaged edge, and the fine will leave an excellent working edge. You can upgrade to other Dia-Folds at your convenience (if you want them).

The clamp & Magna-Guide can be purchased separately, in it's own kit (this is how I got mine). These two links from Knifecenter might minimize the initial cost of setting up:
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/DMTDMG/dmt-dmg-diafold-magna-guide-sharpening-accessory
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/DM...se-Limited-Time-FREE-Serrated-Knife-Sharpener

Out of curiosity, do these products bought individually come with Obsessed with Edges, I mean instructions, especially the aligner clamp?

~ P.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Out of curiosity, do these products bought individually come with Obsessed with Edges, I mean instructions, especially the aligner clamp?

~ P.

If they do, somebody forgot to send me the check.

Seriously, using the clamp is pretty straightforward, once it's in-hand. If any questions come up, you know where to ask (I'll be looking in ). BF is the best 'instruction' to be found anywhere (it's how I learned). :thumbup:

I think DMT may also have downloadable instructions on their site, too (and videos).

 

[stitchawl]

Keep in mind that you can mod the stones with the DMT. After finishing up with the extra-fine stone, I wrap the stone with sheets of polishing film that I buy at the hardware store. I have 2,000, 4,000, 10,000 and 15,000 available to me, which is nice as I like a polished edge on my EDC.


Stitchawl

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Keep in mind that you can mod the stones with the DMT. After finishing up with the extra-fine stone, I wrap the stone with sheets of polishing film that I buy at the hardware store. I have 2,000, 4,000, 10,000 and 15,000 available to me, which is nice as I like a polished edge on my EDC.


Stitchawl

Yes, good tip (thanks Stitch). I've occasionally used wet/dry sandpaper over my hones, in a similar manner. :thumbup:

 

[pertinux]

If they do, somebody forgot to send me the check.

Seriously, using the clamp is pretty straightforward, once it's in-hand. If any questions come up, you know where to ask (I'll be looking in ). BF is the best 'instruction' to be found anywhere (it's how I learned). :thumbup:

I think DMT may also have downloadable instructions on their site, too (and videos).

Thanks, on all counts.

One more question for now: do you (or anyone else) have a preference between the Magna-Guide/Aligner/Diafold setup vs. the Aligner with the non-Diafold (non-Magnetic) stones that fit into an oblong holder as shown below?

~ P.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thanks, on all counts.

One more question for now: do you (or anyone else) have a preference between the Magna-Guide/Aligner/Diafold setup vs. the Aligner with the non-Diafold (non-Magnetic) stones that fit into an oblong holder as shown below?

~ P.

I have the Magna-Guide setup, with the Dia-Folds (C/F, EF/EEF). I like the Dia-Folds, because they're equally useful on their own, to be used freehand. AND, with the Dia-Folds, you can also get two grits in each one, which adds versatility and portability (there are one or two single-sided, also). The hone size of the Dia-Fold is also slightly larger than the dedicated Aligner hones. Probably not much to be significant, but something to consider.

 

[pertinux]

I have the Magna-Guide setup, with the Dia-Folds (C/F, EF/EEF). I like the Dia-Folds, because they're equally useful on their own, to be used freehand. AND, with the Dia-Folds, you can also get two grits in each one, which adds versatility and portability (there are one or two single-sided, also). The hone size of the Dia-Fold is also slightly larger than the dedicated Aligner hones. Probably not much to be significant, but something to consider.

That makes good sense-- thanks (again).

It's too bad (and a little puzzling) that DMT doesn't make the (more cost-effective) MagnaGuide starter set with the option of the Course/Fine Diafold instead of the Fine/Extra Fine (DMT does this with the Aligner Set-- there's a choice). It looks like it's either F/EF, the Quad set (all four), or Make Your Own C/F (as per your links above).

~ P.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

That makes good sense-- thanks (again).

It's too bad (and a little puzzling) that DMT doesn't make the (more cost-effective) MagnaGuide starter set with the option of the Course/Fine Diafold instead of the Fine/Extra Fine (DMT does this with the Aligner Set-- there's a choice). It looks like it's either F/EF, the Quad set (all four), or Make Your Own C/F (as per your links above).

~ P.

That's why I bought the clamp & Magna-Guide kit separately. At that time, I already had 2 of the C/F Dia-Folds, and wanted to get the EF/EEF Dia-Fold in particular. So, the F/EF in the standard kit didn't fit for me. I agree, I think the C/F would be the better 'standard' for the kit, at least for starters.

 

[benhar]

I broke down and ordered a Magna Guide, further proof of why internet forums are dangerous

I have a couple of questions... One thing I've read about the DMT clamp is that the blade doesn't always stay put. Has anyone tried lining the inside of the clamp with electric tape for extra grip?

Second, question... In some places I read I should sharpen one side until a burr forms along the whole blade and then swap, but other places I read I should use the same amount of swipes on each side of the blade. So, which is more important?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I broke down and ordered a Magna Guide, further proof of why internet forums are dangerous

I have a couple of questions... One thing I've read about the DMT clamp is that the blade doesn't always stay put. Has anyone tried lining the inside of the clamp with electric tape for extra grip?

Second, question... In some places I read I should sharpen one side until a burr forms along the whole blade and then swap, but other places I read I should use the same amount of swipes on each side of the blade. So, which is more important?

Any number of ways to help secure the blade. Depending on blade shape & finish, various forms of tape can be used, like masking tape, painter's tape, etc. The most reliable hold I've found so far, is to use a piece of med/fine grit wet/dry sandpaper, folded over the blade spine with the grit side to the clamp (for obvious reasons). The gritty side really holds against the clamp, and the paper backing seems to do a great job holding the blade and keeping it from slipping. It works even when wet, which is a plus over any of the tapes I've tried (they all seem to lose their hold, if wet). This applies to any of the clamped systems (Lansky, Gatco, etc.), not just DMT's clamp.

As for counting strokes, or forming a burr first on one side, that seems to be a user-preference thing. Too many variables will affect edge symmetry, even if making the exact same number of strokes per side. I think the biggest variable is keeping consistent pressure on each and every pass. That's very, very hard to do consistently, and more so if doing a long, drawn-out re-bevelling job on heavy or difficult steel. If pressure isn't consistent, then metal won't be removed at a consistent rate for each pass. That pretty much negates any benefit of counting strokes. I don't count passes, but keep a close eye on edge symmetry as I go. If there's some obvious asymmetry, I'll focus on doing whatever needs done to even it up. That usually means many more passes on one side, than on the other. If the bevel's already fairly even & symmetrical, I'll generally work steadily on one side, to form a burr. Then turn it over and work the other side to 'flip' the burr. Always watch for symmetry, and make adjustments as they are needed.

 

[benhar]

Thanks, the sandpaper is a good idea. Also good to know that keeping the symmetry isn't an exact of a science as I led myself to believe.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thanks, the sandpaper is a good idea. Also good to know that keeping the symmetry isn't an exact of a science as I led myself to believe.

You're welcome. Another point about keeping the blade secure, make absolutely sure the inside faces of the clamp are fully flush to the sides of the blade. Allow no 'wiggle room' for the blade to rock back & forth which, in itself, also creates problems with angle consistency, aside from the slipping issues. Can't emphasize that enough, it makes about 97% of the difference. And for the remaining 3%, the tape/sandpaper helps with the really stubbornly 'slippery' ones (sometimes highly polished blades will do this).

The DMT clamp does have built-in 'stops', set back about 3/8" from the front edge, to keep medium & larger blades from slipping back into the clamp. That makes a difference too. Some 'shims' of varying sizes could be used in between the stops and the blade spine, to provide a similar backing for smaller (narrower) blades. Here are a couple pics of one I improvised (using a piece of zip-tie), for bracing a SAK's main blade (you can see the built-in stops behind the shim):

 

[benhar]

Thanks again, I'll definitely be using that trick as I have a few knives that size.

Sorry, but looking at that picture made me think of another question. About how long does a blade need to be before I need to start moving the clamp to sharpen by sections?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thanks again, I'll definitely be using that trick as I have a few knives that size.

Sorry, but looking at that picture made me think of another question. About how long does a blade need to be before I need to start moving the clamp to sharpen by sections?

I think you could handle blades up to ~8" or so, before having to consider moving the clamp. On blades that size, if the clamp is positioned near the mid-blade, it should reach everything. There will be some variability in the edge angle and bevel width. Sections further from the clamp will be at more acute angles (with wider bevels), and sections closer will be less acute, and the bevels narrower. This is a good thing to think about before positioning the clamp. Depending on the blade size, you might be able to position the clamp to optimize certain sections to your preference.

 

[DannyBoy2k]

I think you could handle blades up to ~8" or so, before having to consider moving the clamp. On blades that size, if the clamp is positioned near the mid-blade, it should reach everything. There will be some variability in the edge angle and bevel width. Sections further from the clamp will be at more acute angles (with wider bevels), and sections closer will be less acute, and the bevels narrower. This is a good thing to think about before positioning the clamp. Depending on the blade size, you might be able to position the clamp to optimize certain sections to your preference.

Came across a post on Clay Allison's blog regarding this, since the WickedEdge is essentially the same system, but with a fixed clamp. So long as the blade is not curved, you could actually sharpen on an infinitely long blade and the angle at the bevel wouldn't change. It's the curvature of the blade that will cause the angle to change, and that can be minimized by keeping the curved part of the blade closer to the clamp. Relevant posts here:
http://sharpeningtechniques.blogspot.com/2010_11_01_archive.html

http://sharpeningtechniques.blogspot.com/2010/11/more-about-angles-and-angle-change.html
http://sharpeningtechniques.blogspot.com/2010/11/even-more-on-issue-of-constant-angle.html
http://sharpeningtechniques.blogspot.com/2010/11/more-on-issue-of-constant-angle.html

~Dan