Do flippers need ball bearings for a top notch action?

o_O I'm pretty old and weak , but I can still manage to work any flipper that was properly built and adjusted , with no undue strain . That's plenty good enough for me , so washer vs bearings is a non issue .:cool:
 
evilgreg said:
FWIW, I've bought a lot of Southards (~8 - 10 of them maybe), and I've been able to get all of them to be snappy flippers even though many I've purchased second hand were initially poor flippers when I received them. Most common issues:
  1. Pivot too tight
  2. Pivot area dirty
  3. Pivot assembled incorrectly (backwards, usually--it doesn't seem like it should make a difference, but it does)
  4. More rarely, detent too strong or too weak
I bought a couple where the seller warned "it takes a little wrist" or something similar, and after disassembling, cleaning, and tuning them up if necessary they've all ended up with pretty solid flipping action in the end.

There is some variation, though. My first one (gift from my wife) is the one I've carried most, and it's also the best flipper of the bunch. It's been flipped many, many thousands of times at this point, though, so maybe some of that is long term break-in. I dunno, even though I've tuned up a lot of them, this one still flips the best:



Oddly, the black coated ones are better flippers on average (I have no idea why that would be).
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Mine were horrible. But I purchased mine right when first released. The ones I had had so much lockbar pressure that they were hard to close. And any attempt to reduce the lockbar pressure meant that the detent was non existent and the locks would fail with slightest pressure applied to the spine of the blade. Its very possible they have dialed them in since first released. But mine sucked thoroughly. As for black blades they usually feel smoother because the coating itself is very hard and slick and the detent ball glides over them as if its lubricated.
 
the Kershaw skyline is a pb washer flipper and its a pretty poor flipper, often requiring wrist. YMMV with yours tho. mine works fine when the pivot is a bit loose but has blade play.

Hinderers are on nylon washers and don't flip very well either. they thumb flick way better tho.

flippers should have bearings due to less friction and better tolerance's.
 
I don't think so because my Kershaw Skyline has one of the best butter smooth actions I've ever seen and it flips hard without having to preload it.
 
barmettlerjosh said:
I don't think so because my Kershaw Skyline has one of the best butter smooth actions I've ever seen and it flips hard without having to preload it.
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that's what YMMV essentially means. I dunno about you, but I've read people that have skylines like mine and yours. I dunno if you have any blade play tho, and mine is dlc coated s30v/carbon fiber so I dunno if that has anything to do with it either. glad you got a great one assuming you have no blade play. in any case you can say the exact same about the hinderer's. some have no issues flipping them, while others have issues. in any case, they are not great as a whole like most ball bearing flippers are.
 
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My Matt Bailey model 2 flipper is amazingly smooth with pb washers. I don't feel ball bearings are necessary.
 
Alot of the Hogue folders don't even have actual washers but rather psudo washers built into the scales. Then again most their knives are not flippers.

However the Hogues I do own are among the smoothest knives out there. They literally fly out the handle. The EX-05 has a special track its detent runs in which causes the blade to almost feel assisted it flies out with such authority.
 
Lapedog, thanks for the Hogue info. I've never felt a knife that opened that glassy smooth.
 
You must try a Hogue if you get the chance. They are even smoother than some knives I own on bearings. The EX-05 is the only one that comes with the detent system which causes the blade to thrust out as it does. However they are all incredibly smooth.

They also come with some ofnthe best edges out of the box and are one of the few knives I have got from the factory with a mirror polish.
 
IMG_2348.JPG I'll add to the smooth Hogue party!! I have an EX-4 wharnie and an X5. The 4 has thumb studs and feels assisted when flicked!! Amazingly smooth!!
The X5 is a flipper and it is the fastest opening flipper I have! It literally flies open! Pretty damn sexy too!!
Joe
 
Mo2 said:
that's what YMMV essentially means. I dunno about you, but I've read people that have skylines like mine and yours. I dunno if you have any blade play tho, and mine is dlc coated s30v/carbon fiber so I dunno if that has anything to do with it either. glad you got a great one assuming you have no blade play. in any case you can say the exact same about the hinderer's. some have no issues flipping them, while others have issues. in any case, they are not great as a whole like most ball bearing flippers are.
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Just wondering if your skyline is newer or older? The reason i ask is because i remember my first manual flipper was a kershaw tanto groove about a decade ago. That knife had no detent at all. I remember back then not many knew the proper formula for getting a flipper to flip. Kai seemed to do a lot of r&d into the detents and now i find they are much more consistent. But it seemed they did a lot of experimentation. Im wondering if yours is an older one or if they are still either experimenting or if its just a matter of variable tolerances.
 
Ball bearings are nice and I have zero concerns with them, but washers perform just as well. To me, I'll buy either and like both.
 
Lord_Balkan said:
So I've been thinking about this. I have many super smooth knives on washers. A lot of them can be drop shut smooth when the tolerances are right. A good benchmade, a sebenza with polished washers, etc. From what I've seen, it seems like the bottleneck for smoothness is when the detent ball rides on the blade, and not the smoothness / friction on the actual pivot. My Sebenza are completely free when the detent ball is not on the blade, and a good 940 Benchmade can swing freely.

I may not be understanding the whole picture here, so I apologize in advance. Feel free to educate me. But if I understand this correctly, why do flippers need ball bearings? Couldn't you get a similar action assuming you have tight tolerances? I know there are some Shirogorov flippers on washers, I just don't know how they compare.

If it is possible, why do we not see many flippers on washers these days?
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:) Flippers do not need ball bearings but apparently some people feel the need to have them :confused:, maybe because they think it's cool . :cool: The functional difference is minuscule if there is one beyond what is imagined :eek:. Maybe it's for the bling or the pursuit of perfection ? o_O

:p It's really a non issue for me . I'm just as happy with or without . Other factors are much more vital . :D
 
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