Recommendation? Do I need a set of stones?

Spats McGee

Spats McGee

Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
389
Yes, I realize that y'all are probably a huge bunch of enablers, but I figured I'd ask, anyway. As some of you may have noticed, I picked up a used Hapstone R2. Looking it over, it appears to be in mechanically good condition, but it's also obviously used.
https://imgur.com/a/1azOmdK

It came with the basic set of 3 diamond stones, 200 grit, 600 grit and 1000 grit. I'm moderately sure that they're Edge Pro stones. I've only fiddled with them a little, and I need to do more of that, but at some point, I'm quite likely to want some new stones, either to replace the ones I have, or to supplement. The stones that came with it don't feel nearly as aggressive as some of my other stones, which I use for freehand. I can see three possibilities, but would appreciate it if someone would let me know if I'm overlooking something. So, the three possibilities: (a) they're clogged up; (b) they're worn out; or (c) the Hapstone just does not give the same kind or degree of feedback as freehand sharpening. To be honest, my Gatco coarse hone even feels more aggressive than the 200 grit Edge Pro. In regard to clogging, I gave them a quick, soapy-water bath & scrub yesterday, but didn't feel any difference. It's possible I didn't scrub enough, so I'll try that again before moving on.

I feel pretty confident that Venev and CGSW will be suggested. That said, two things bear mentioning: (1) Mrs. McGee is growing weary of the amount of $$$ I've been spending on sharpening goodies; and (b) as I'm still in the learning phase, and I'm enjoying experimenting with different stones and steels. Obviously, looked at Venev and CGSW, but I'm also considering the Boride stones, particularly the T2 line. How are those? Are there any others that I just have to look at before deciding? If it makes any difference, my sharpening currently consists of stainless steel kitchen knives, a handful of stainless pocket knives, one Benchmade in 154CM, and a Spyderco in S30V.

Thanks in advance,
Spats
 
I would like to add one more possibility (d): The stones are of inferior quality. (a) and (b) are more likely. As you have already tried to clean them...diamond stones wear out quickly if used wrong. I.e. too much pressure. Another point with diamond hones is the quality. Good diamond stones are made of monocrystalline diamonds. The cheap ones are polycristalline usually. Edge Pro diamond stones are monocrystalline.
For a better understanding (I am not an expert):
https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/DMT-and-Diamond-Stone-FAQ-W54C60.aspx

https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Why-Use-DMT-Diamond-Sharpeners-W15C60.aspx

If you are going to buy new stones, you have many options. Good stones are Shapton Glass, Shapton Pro, Naniwa Pro, Suehiro Cerax, Spyderco and others. All are available as 1''x6'' stones and should work with a Hapstone system.

I forgot to mention: Even if you keep those 3 diamond stones: You might think about a finer finishing stone. 1.000 grit is not that fine.
 
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Always loved Hapstone's, nice industrial design. Sweet find. Can't tell from pic if those stones are Gritomatic or Edgepro sourced, though both are monocrystalline, Gritomatic's set has 3=240,600,1000, Edgepro has only had 2 for a while= fine and extra fine. As the Mrs. is raising eyebrow you might just add one coarser diamond for now, like a 140-ish- measure thickness and match as I do not see thickness compensator.
 
Quick update: the stones say "Diamond [grit]" with the web address of gritomatic below that. They are 200, 600, and 1000. I just spent about 45 minutes fiddling with it. I like the machine, but I'm getting no love from the stones, so far. I put an old Ka Bar in the clamps. I don't have an angle cube yet, so I used the level on my phone. It said the flat of the blade was at -18*, so I figure if I want a 20* bevel, I need the arm to be at -8*. 10* per side, right? (I'm a big Word Nerd, so please tell me if I'm doing my math wrong. The arm won't go down that far without the stone grinding the clamp. I could get to -2*, but that was it. So I went with that. I put Sharpie on the bevel, and then spent about 45 minutes with the 200 grit working one side of the blade. No bur. None. I used light edge-leading strokes, and tried 'sawing.' No bur. I got rid of all the Sharpie, but that's about all I can say. I flipped to the other side, just to see if that changed anything. Nope. I could see swarf coming off onto the stone and on the blade under magnification, but no bur. Mind you, I can raise a burr in about 3.5 minutes with my other coarse stones. When I was done, the knife wouldn't cut paper.
 
Don't know anything about that system, but bottom line question is: Can you make a blade razor sharp with those stones? If so, you are good to go.

Says a guy who buys all kinds of stuff I don't need. 🤣
 
scottc3 said:
Always loved Hapstone's, nice industrial design. Sweet find. Can't tell from pic if those stones are Gritomatic or Edgepro sourced, though both are monocrystalline, Gritomatic's set has 3=240,600,1000, Edgepro has only had 2 for a while= fine and extra fine. As the Mrs. is raising eyebrow you might just add one coarser diamond for now, like a 140-ish- measure thickness and match as I do not see thickness compensator.
Click to expand...
The thickness compensator and stop collars are two things I think I'd like to add.
 
Triple_D said:
Don't know anything about that system, but bottom line question is: Can you make a blade razor sharp with those stones? If so, you are good to go.

Says a guy who buys all kinds of stuff I don't need. 🤣
Click to expand...
At this point, the answer to that is, "no, I can't." 😭
 
The degree reading is relative to the base. I have a hapstone m2 which is a more basic unit without the rotating clamp and shaped altogether different. I’d look to YouTube for some videos to watch. And get and angle cube first.
Honestly, I set my edc knives to 15-20 degrees per side and they cut beautifully.
 
Cannot resist saying that you may need a set of stones to stand up to Mrs. McGee and buy what you need to make this work.

Leaving that aside, I am not familiar with the EdgePro stones. But washing with soap and water is not a good solution to glazed diamond stones. You need a surface conditioner. A diamond plate, a coarse (~240 grit) silicon carbide stone, some nice cheap silicon carbide powder in 60-240 grit (cheap!) on a flat surface, something. It is very possible that your stones are perfectly adequate, and just need conditioning.

If not, I'd certainly recommend the Venev double-sided stones. But remember to adjust the angle when you change stones.
 
sickpuppy1 said:
The degree reading is relative to the base. I have a hapstone m2 which is a more basic unit without the rotating clamp and shaped altogether different. I’d look to YouTube for some videos to watch. And get and angle cube first.
Honestly, I set my edc knives to 15-20 degrees per side and they cut beautifully.
Click to expand...
So when you put your angle cube on the arm, what reading are you looking for? I'd really like to get this straight in my head before going too much further.
 
Hey Spats McGee Spats McGee , congratulations on your Hapstone R2 with angled clamps. Great find!

Those stones are the basic Gritomatic Diamond plated stones. Diamonds plated onto a steel plate, mounted on an aluminum backing. There is a chance that the previous owner could have ruined them, but I think there is also a chance that you're measuring your angle wrong and grinding away a huge amount of steel behind the edge.

If you hold the stones up to a light source and rotate them a bit, can you see lots of small reflections off of the small diamonds, especially on the coarse stone? If so, they are probably still good.

Please DO NOT ever try flatten or condition them with silicon carbide! That will definitely ruin them. Remember, these are plated diamonds, not a resin diamond stone. Clean it with bar keepers friend and a nylon brush if you need to, otherwise just dish soap and water after use. They don't need much pressure to use, let the diamonds do the work. Make sure to keep them lubricated with soapy water and they will last a long time. (Assuming the previous owner didn't kill them)

Right, first securely clamp your Ka Bar with both your clamps, as wide as possible. Preferably in the locations I've marked for you with yellow lines representing the clamps.

Screenshot_20220326-234319~2.png

Then, make sure to ZERO your phone / angle cube reference on the top of the rotating unit platform (blue circle). After this, place your phone / angle cube on top of the stone holder (pink circle) with the stone in place and on top of the centre of the blade. Now adjust your angle to your desired 20 degrees.

The first time you set a new, lower bevel on a big knife like this it will take time. If you match the current edge bevel, it would be fast.

Hope this helps!

Screenshot_20220326-233958~2.png
 
Thank you, one and all.

That's exactly how I clamped the knife, 777 Edge 777 Edge , so I got that part right. I was also measuring at the right places, but I may well have been measuring wrong. I don't have a way to zero my phone's level (that I can tell), so it's very possible that I was measuring (or calculating) wrong. (I'll be the first to admit, I'm a Word Nerd.) I have an angle cube on the way, so that should help. We keep BKF on hand, so I'll give it a go with that today, as well. I held the coarse stone up to a lamp. Not a lot of sparklies. Also, I spent a few minutes freehanding, as P Papilio suggested. There's definitely a large, smoother area in the middle of the stone. I can feel it, and I can hear it.

I also do have to say that I'm pretty pleased with my find, even if it isn't going perfectly the first time around. That's not a huge surprise for me, and I shopped victoriously!
 
Spats McGee said:
777 Edge 777 Edge , assuming I’m measuring the angle wrong and grinding away steel, I should still get a burr at some point, right?
Click to expand...
Eventually, yes but it may take a few hours.

If (from what I think I understand how you measured your angle) you are sharpening a wide knife like that with such a low angle that you're touching the clamps while sharpening, then I think you may actually be down to 10-12 degrees in reality. If so, then that would take a huge amount of steel removal on a Ka Bar before you apex your edge.

From your inspection under a light source, it sounds like some of your stones may possibly be done for. The previous owner may have put them through the ringer. If you want to try a fresh set (same as those stones), Gritomatic sells their "Basic diamond set" (the ones you have) for a really cheap price. It may be a good place to start, then eventually as you get into it, move up to Venev or GCSW stones.

Here is a link to the stones you have:
www.gritomatic.com

Basic Diamond (3)Stone Set [6" x ¾"]

Basic Diamond Set is used for sharpening knives on Edge Pro compatible knife sharpeners. Diamonds offer excellent performance in sharpening knives of any steel including high carbon, vanadium, and chromium steels. Diamond-bearing plates are mounted on the high-quality aluminum blank with laser...
www.gritomatic.com www.gritomatic.com
 
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777 Edge said:
Eventually, yes but it may take a few hours.

If (from what I think I understand how you measured your angle) you are sharpening a wide knife like that with such a low angle that you're touching the clamps while sharpening, then I think you may actually be down to 10-12 degrees in reality. If so, then that would take a huge amount of steel removal on a Ka Bar before you apex your edge.

Sounds like your stones may possibly be done for, the previous owner may have put them through the ringer. If you want to try a fresh set (same as those stones), Gritomatic sells their "Basic diamond set" (the ones you have) for a really cheap price. It may be a good place to start, then eventually as you get into it, move up to Venev or GCSW stones.

Here is a link to the stones you have:
www.gritomatic.com

Basic Diamond (3)Stone Set [6" x ¾"]

Basic Diamond Set is used for sharpening knives on Edge Pro compatible knife sharpeners. Diamonds offer excellent performance in sharpening knives of any steel including high carbon, vanadium, and chromium steels. Diamond-bearing plates are mounted on the high-quality aluminum blank with laser...
www.gritomatic.com www.gritomatic.com
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I took the angle as low as I could go without touching the clamps. So I think you called it right.

And yeah, those are the stones.
 
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