Do I need to become a metalurgist to make a few knifes?

M

Maylar

Joined
Sep 13, 2013
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4
Howdy, blade guys.

I have it in mind to make 3-4 chef's knives as Christmas gifts for the cooks in my family. I've been through some of the stickies here and the discussions on steels and heat treating is a bit daunting and I'm questioning whether I want to get involved with this craft. I don't want to become a metals expert, I just want to make a few nice knives.

I own or have access to the tools required, other than an oven or forge. I do have an O/A torch with a big tip but I'm now doubting that I could hold a 9" blade to correct temperature for a long enough time to propperly harden the steel. My limited experience was with a center punch that I made years ago - heat to "bright cherry red" then quench in oil.

So my question is how successful am I likely to be if I can't heat the steel for a long time to an exact temperature?

Thanks

Dave from CT
 
No. A basic understanding is helpful, and even more if you do your own heat treating. However, there are many makers that send their blades to a heat treater. It's one of those things that goes as deep as you want. If you only want to dig with a spoon, no problem. Some choose to use a backhoe.
 
Part of that depends on what steel you use to some degree. You could always just send it out to Peters for professional heat treat, as I do. If you're planning on doing the heat treat yourself, some are more forgiving to beginners than others.
 
If you are going to make four knives and don't plan on getting deeper into the craft, by all means send the blades out to be heat treated. Purchase a known steel so the heat treat person will know what hes working with.

Have fun, Fred
 
1095, O1, W1, W2, 52100, Hitachi white and blue all make great non stainless chef's knives, and any professional heat treater should be able to nail the HT. I don't use stainless, so I don't have any recommendations there.
 
Perhaps read a couple old threads on heat treating 1084 steel. It's what most beginners use because it's forgiving. You can do it yourself. After reading up on it you might find that the making of the knife is the harder part and after you've gone through all that work you might want to do the heat treatment yourself. In my experience as a hobbyist knifemaker using 1084 and a homemade paint can forge, it's hard to screw up the heat treatment.
 
Not to mention the Heattreating is fun,when working with the simpler carbon steel .1084.
Eddie
 
A knife is only as good as its heat treatment. Read up on how to make knives. Learn how to properly shape a knife. Let Peters do the heat treatment.
 
One of the most important things in a chef's knife is the geometry, equal to and sometimes greater than the HT. I've had crappy Chinese cleavers around 50ish HRC that were super thin and correctly shaped that cut better than some of the customs from first time makers that I had on hand. Even though those first-time makers were producing blades that were correctly heat treated and had the profile of a knife, they did not have the correct geometry in their grind.
 
Chef's knives are not easy to pull off.
As The Count suggested, I'd go for some paring knives for this year and MAYBE some chef's knives for next year.
And yeah, just send 'em out for H.T., no worries that way.
 
These guys are right. Chef's knives are difficult to do right. Geometry is everything with kitchen knives, and the bigger you go, the harder it is to pull of correctly. Blade width is important as is the blade thickness. The European knives are thicker and tougher. The Japanese knives are thinner and harder. OK, relatively speaking that is. I've been making knives for a couple years, and have only attempted three chef's style knives. When you choose a steel, you have to take into account what performance that steel is capable of. Can I grind this steel really thin and still have the edge hold up? Should I leave the spine a bit thick for a stiffer knife, or thin it out for more flex? Geometry, steel type, and dean nails heat treatment are critical to kitchen knives. Most people are really going to pay attention to edge retention, at least I do. And our favorite carbon steels can be difficult to balance edge retention with no chipping vs no rolling. I have a Masamoto HC, supposed to be a very good knife. The geometry is right....but it does not hold it's edge as well as the santoku I made my wife out of 1084. Go figure. If you send off your knife for heat treat...no problem. If you do it yourself, if you don't have a nice oven, then getting an even heat across that entire blade is a bit tricky. Certainly doable, but if you aren't experienced, I would highly recommend you send it off. If you want to heat treat yourself, make a few paring knives, and get the geometry and heat treat nailed for those. Then move up. Good luck there, Dave!!!
 
It will be very difficult to heat treat a chef's knife, regardless of steel at 9" long without an enclosure of some sort. I could not get even heat in anything bigger than a 3.5" blade with a torch until I started using a fire brick forge.
 
If you only want to make a few knives for Christmas presents, consider a pre-made blade. Most all of the knife suppliers have them in many shapes and metal types. You can make anything from a simple AUS-8 chefs knife to a very nice laminated VG-10 blade. You will still need to fit the handle and finish it. The blades come ready to use and sharp.

I will tell you that it is almost too late in the year for a complete new maker to start such a project and have it done in time for this Christmas. And that would be a batch of knives with pre-made blades. From scratch it would be pretty hard to pull off and get much quality.
 
You best chance at making from scratch would be starting out with thin stock and doing a partial bevel using a jig. Even that would be very tough to pull off in just three short months, especially if you're sending them out for heat treat.

You may want to shoot for next Christmas, or just start with some prefabricated blanks.
 
Thanks all for the replies.

bladsmth said:
If you only want to make a few knives for Christmas presents, consider a pre-made blade. Most all of the knife suppliers have them in many shapes and metal types. You can make anything from a simple AUS-8 chefs knife to a very nice laminated VG-10 blade. You will still need to fit the handle and finish it. The blades come ready to use and sharp.

I will tell you that it is almost too late in the year for a complete new maker to start such a project and have it done in time for this Christmas. And that would be a batch of knives with pre-made blades. From scratch it would be pretty hard to pull off and get much quality.
Click to expand...

I had no idea how involved knife making was until I found this site. Great resource you guys have here. And I believe you're right about it being late in the season for a beginner to have a chance before Christmas.

I'll check out the suppliers first as you suggested. The gifts I have in mind include exotic wood handles and knife block, the woodworking part is my forte. That will be a project in itself.

Thanks again.

Dave from CT
 
Maylar said:
Thanks all for the replies.



I had no idea how involved knife making was until I found this site. Great resource you guys have here. And I believe you're right about it being late in the season for a beginner to have a chance before Christmas.

I'll check out the suppliers first as you suggested. The gifts I have in mind include exotic wood handles and knife block, the woodworking part is my forte. That will be a project in itself.

Thanks again.

Dave from CT
Click to expand...

If the handles will be the main feature, then pre-made blades will be your friend. I would suggest knives like the ones below. The ones with bolsters are far nicer, but they all will make great gifts:
For top end blades - http://www.knifemaking.com/category-s/27.htm
For really nice blades - http://www.knifemaking.com/category-s/45.htm
For good knives at lower end cost - http://www.knifemaking.com/category-s/41.htm ; http://www.knifemaking.com/category-s/51.htm ( full sets on page three) ; http://www.knifemaking.com/category-s/50.htm

This one makes one of the best gift knives you could want. It will become the recipient's first choice knife for most all kitchen tasks. The name, santoku, means "three virtues", meaning it slices, dices, and chops.
http://www.knifemaking.com/product-p/hd904.htm
One of these and a single knife resting block will make a $400 value gift.
 
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