Do I really need a tent/tarp in my bugout bag?

I always carry a lightweight ripstop nylon tarp in my daypack, about 8 x 10... weighs maybe half a pound and is very versatile. In bug season I also carry a square yard of mosquito netting; mosquitoes and black flies are the most ferocious critters in the north.
 
I always some form of dependable shelter in my BOB. I have an OR basic bivy, a silnylon tarp, a space bag, etc. Now, I do not carry all at once, just what feels that best for the outdoor activity at end. Sometimes you have to adapt what you carry or pack depending on what is going on.
 
Anyone who really wants to bug out and depend on location for natural shelters, luck with the weather, or a mere tarp to do the trick for shelter, ought to really try it when the weather is foul, not just when it is easy.
One night in a downpour or in high wind with a tarp is doable, but three will drive most to upgrade to something a little more bombproof.
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One night in a downpour or in high wind with a tarp is doable, but three will drive most to upgrade to something a little more bombproof.
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I like his suggestion.
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Quiet Storm,

This is going to be one of situations when "camping" or "hiking" is going to lead to different gear choices then a BOB survivial situation.

I am a long range, super light weight hiker. I often use a tarp for a shelter in all four seasons. But doing that, I almost always have the time and ability to pick my sleep spot in daylight and do some enviromental prep. For example, get myself a bed of pine boughs or find a convienent wind breaking rock or sand trench. I have even dug out a snow cave and spent a fairly comfortable night in it with a small candle, wrapped up tight in my tarp, surrounded by some evergreen boughs.

In a survival situation, I will not have that luxury of time or energy. If things are really really bad, that enviromental prep can lead trouble right to you and you might find yourself hunkering down in some poor campsite choices where prep is just not going to help.

In that situation, I would want my bivy sack. Fast, light, reasonably water proof,warm, low profile, keeps the bugs out. Also, I can use it wounded, which is why it's on my long motorcycle trip packing list. If I come off the bike in some of the beautiful and desolate places I ride, at least I have a shelter I can drag my sorry self into with zero prep time.

My particular bivy gives me about an additional 22 degrees of warmth compared to an open air camp, and has a bug net over the face. Sleeping in such tight confines takes some getting used to, but that's just a training issue.

Most of the expensive bivies have spectra fiber loops for harnessing into on multiday technical assents, so you can even pick vertical sleeping spots if you have to.

Just my two cents,
Jeff
 
I vote for the tarp also. I have been through hurricanes (Helena etc.), I've been caught out in storms in the NorthWest and I have also struggled to find dry ground for wounded. A tarp has been one of the most important tools in every situation. I have one in every B.O.B. and every vehicle. Easily stored with a couple long bungees to wrap it and easier to hang quickly if needed.
 
Thanks everyone for the many good suggestions, ideas and tips.

I'm not yet convinced which kind of tarp I'm going to get, but now I have a lot of options to consider. Thanks again!
 
2dogs said:
I'm not a great believer in BOBs because I have a home and family so mine are BIBs. That is Bug In Bags, meant to sustain me or another family member for 3 days or so. That isn't because I think 3 is a magic number its just I know I have several alternative places to live. If we have warning I have a "pallet" ready to load in the back of the truck. It is our basic camping gear, with several camo tarps.

If you're going to travel solo for a few days you might want to add some giant plastic bags from SOS survival. They are light and small and can be vacuum packed even smaller. We all carry 1 large and 1 small SOS bag. I'm a real fan of the tarp shelter. Where I live we have a HUGE transient population and working as FF I've seen some very inovative tarp setups. You can learn alot from watching hobos and others who live on the street.

http://www.survivalandoutdoorsafety.com/cus.html
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We have the same philosophy when it comes to "disaster preparedness" . Everything we need is here at the house. Why should I ever bug out? If the need arises I have three other places to live temporarily and can be packed and gone in less than an hour, however I just don't see that ever happening.
 
harpers ferry said:
We have the same philosophy when it comes to "disaster preparedness" . Everything we need is here at the house. Why should I ever bug out? If the need arises I have three other places to live temporarily and can be packed and gone in less than an hour, however I just don't see that ever happening.
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Dogs, you do not live in Seattle, San Francisco, etc. -- not to mention New Orleans. Residents of these areas (except for braindead or clueless) will tell you that they clearly do not live in an areas where they are unlikely ro be forced to evacutate away from home AND away from easy alternatives.

As for me, I don't live in an area subject to floods, earthquake, forest/brush fire, or likely terrorist attack. If a blizzard comes, I'm staying at home. If a blizzard catches me on some remote highway, I may be very happy to have survival kit in the vehicle.
 
yep, you got the picture. The most likely "disaster' for us is that we will have a blizzard and not be able to get out to get a 6 pack.Oh, thats right, we are having a blizzard right now.... I'll have to settle for some sour mash whiskey instead of beer, oh the humanity........................
 
Alberta Ed said:
I always carry a lightweight ripstop nylon tarp in my daypack, about 8 x 10... weighs maybe half a pound and is very versatile. In bug season I also carry a square yard of mosquito netting; mosquitoes and black flies are the most ferocious critters in the north.
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I'm trying to imagine how you use the mosquito netting. Do you wear a cowboy hat and wrap it under your armpits? I think I'm missing something here... Thanks!
 
I'd go with a bivy bag and do. They set up anywhere(drop it and get in) add warmth to your bag(so can carry a lighter sleeping bag or go without depending on where you are) and are quite durable. I've got an old Canadian Military Goretex bag that I paid $20 Can. for that goes in my "what if" kit and a better, lighter Goretex bivy from Moonstone for my backpacking and climbing. They aren't great for multi-day living, but that's more of a comfort thing than a survival issue. Most bags can open up for better ventilation in fair weather ,but can seal up quite nicely when it turns nasty. For backpacking, some buddies and I bring a large tarp for cooking and place our bivies under the edges of the tarp so our heads are actually under the tarp, but our bodies are not. This way we can get into our bivies in foul weather without getting the inside of the bags soaked. Someone had mentioned trying your set-up in less than ideal conditions. I agree and have spent more then a few nights on my lawn in the rain and snow to see how things worked BEFORE I took them into the back-country. That way, I'm not as easily surprised by how my kit works.
 
My only complaint about Gore-Tex is that it doesn't breath if the outside is covered with a film of water. Now how could that ever happen to a bivy? :D

Not that you can't get condensation on the inside surface of a trap in the "right" (i.e. wrong) conditions. But I'm less likely to rub up against that wet surface with a tarp.
 
As long as they(Gore-Tex) are well treated, outside water saturation is a non-issue. I know you get some condensation on the inside, but I'll take that in cold, wet, windy conditions over a tarp. I know tarps are more comfortable in most conditions as long as it is favourable to set up and use, but for unexpected nights in the wilderness in less than ideal weather, I'd go with the bivy. It all depends where you're going as well. I would most likely need a bivy when I'm climbing or sea-paddling. If I'm above tree-line and need to dig in, a tarp would be of little use, and if I'm caught off-shore and need to find a landing on an exposed coast with little or no beach, a tarp would likely be hard(if not impossible) to erect. The piece of coast I paddle is home to the world's highest tidal fluctuations and beaches are often non-existant leaving me with few emergency take-outs. This means I may have to scramble up some fairly steep banks and a small ledge might be all I have with little or no tie down points. I don't use it for the comfort; I use it because of its' versatility. If I can sit down, I can use my bivy.
 
flipe8 said:
As long as they(Gore-Tex) are well treated, outside water saturation is a non-issue.
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True. As long as water-repellant keeps a film from forming on the outside, there is some breathing. If a film forms, the thermal "push" cannot overcome the film-strength of water. So says Gore.

But since the breathing is the result of thermal "push," the more closely the garment fits, the more breathing you get. So says Gore. A bivy does not fit particularly closely compared to a parka. A tent is worse in that sense.

Most Gore-Tex tents and bivy sacks made more recently rely on good design for ventilation through windows and vents. This limits their role in increasing warmth. Also makes you wonder why you are paying for the Gore-Tex.

The older models were not recommended for cold, wet conditions - by the manufacturers. I used a Gore-Tex bivy in the mountains of New Mexico in late August, 1995 - the second "rainy season" there. I had to sponge liquid water off the floor every morning for ten days. It did increase warmth - a welcome effect since I had undrestimated how cool it would be in selecting my sleeping bag.

I take your point that there is less set-up with a bivy. That's why I selected it for my little adventure. I anticipated backpacking until after dark on several "legs" and didn't want the hassle of pitching a tarp in the dark. Also, the bivy was bug-proof on it's own, compared to a tarp.
 
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