Do the Rick Hinderer's Xm18 CPM20cv chip/roll ?

[Liekme]

Hello fellow knife-addicts, my first time posting here. I've always been a guest by reading the amazing contents here, thought of asking a question myself here today. I would like to apologize in advance if I have posted in the wrong section, I am still fairly new in this forum and would like to seek guidance.

Anyways,
I have decided on getting a Rick Hinderer's XM18 3.5", problem is there's 2 variants of steel for me to choose from, S35vn OR CPM20cv. I know CPM20cv has superior composition and performance compared to S35vn (I have a 0562cf to compare), BUT what I would like to know is that has anyone ever had problems with RHK's CPM20cv ? I've read a few cases of edge rolling and chipping from other forums and youtube, which was at least 3-4 years back and the current CPM20cv may or may not have the same issue. Hence, I would like to know what is the current status like for RHK's CPM20cv ? I tried searching through the forums and elsewhere but all I could find was how "CPM20cv VS S35vn" which does not answer my question

Thank you very much.

Edit : If anyone could provide the latest review of a RHK XM18's CPM20cv or S35vn, I would be delighted. I do know that their Gen 4 has a lot of improvements compared to the previous Gens.

 

[Jordan@DLT]

In my experience, Hinderer's 20CV is excellent.

 

[whitty]

I recently got a 20CV Harpoon Spanto and have not really noticed any difference between it and S35. I have not used the 20CV much so I might report back differently after this weekend.

 

[Peter Hartwig]

I have never had anything but Duratech 20CV on my Hinderers and have not experienced any problems.

 

[me2]

Much as I'm not a Hinderer fan, the 20cv on the one I had was fine when it came to chipping. Edge holding was not terribly good, but touhhness was not an issue.

 

[Liekme]

In my experience, Hinderer's 20CV is excellent.

I see, I was a bit concerned as his 20cv was treated at a lower range than his s35vn, hence thought it would be more prone to rolling / chipping deal is being a superior steel compared to s35vn

I recently got a 20CV Harpoon Spanto and have not really noticed any difference between it and S35. I have not used the 20CV much so I might report back differently after this weekend.

omg , that is exactly the same specification I'm looking for ! If you wouldn't mind, i would be obliged if you would be so kind to provide your feedback after using it.

I have never had anything but Duratech 20CV on my Hinderers and have not experienced any problems.

ah ok. 20cv is one of my favourite steels , problem is I was a bit worried that RHK's 20cv might chip/roll, I can imagine the pain having to reprofile that. Planning on hard using my RHK, it should hold up right?

Much as I'm not a Hinderer fan, the 20cv on the one I had was fine when it came to chipping. Edge holding was not terribly good, but touhhness was not an issue.

I see. Edge holding wasn't as good as the s35vn ? I thought 20cv in terms of composition and performance would be better than s35vn ?

 

[Peter Hartwig]

It was the only steel Hinderer used for many years, and the steel he built his name on. I can't recall many if any complaints and some were rather abusive to their knives.
I did a little light searching through some archives and only found positive comments.

 

[unwisefool]

Doesn't he make them in cts-xhp as well?

 

[Liekme]

It was the only steel Hinderer used for many years, and the steel he built his name on. I can't recall many if any complaints and some were rather abusive to their knives.
I did a little light searching through some archives and only found positive comments.

yea same , all positive . The negative I saw was one reddit and on YouTube . But that was like 1-2 bad experience. I think I've made a decision to get cpm20cv, only worry I have is sharpening that beast haha

Doesn't he make them in cts-xhp as well?

I think he does. But my dealer who is an authorised dealer of RHK, only offers cpm20cv and s35vn

 

[me2]

I see. Edge holding wasn't as good as the s35vn ? I thought 20cv in terms of composition and performance would be better than s35vn ?

I don't know about the S35VN. I have only used 20cv in a Hinderer. I compared it to a Spyderco Delica in Vg10. The edge holding was about the same or just slightly behind the Delica cutting cardboard. For rougher use, chopping bamboo skewers, the Hinderer was a bit ahead. I was testing for high sharpness edge retention. Had I kept going, the Hinderer probably would have pulled ahead, but I stopped the test when the edges failed to slice a plastic grocery bag.

I'm comparing S110V and CTS BD1 now and so far I can't see a difference on cardboard. I have some more cutting to do this weekend, but I'm at 400 feet of cardboard per blade right now, so probably won't go much further. If I were just carrying these knives, I would have sharpened both already.

 

[Liekme]

I don't know about the S35VN. I have only used 20cv in a Hinderer. I compared it to a Spyderco Delica in Vg10. The edge holding was about the same or just slightly behind the Delica cutting cardboard. For rougher use, chopping bamboo skewers, the Hinderer was a bit ahead. I was testing for high sharpness edge retention. Had I kept going, the Hinderer probably would have pulled ahead, but I stopped the test when the edges failed to slice a plastic grocery bag.

I'm comparing S110V and CTS BD1 now and so far I can't see a difference on cardboard. I have some more cutting to do this weekend, but I'm at 400 feet of cardboard per blade right now, so probably won't go much further. If I were just carrying these knives, I would have sharpened both already.

To be honest, I'm pretty shocked to see that CPM20cv has an on par level of edge retention as VG10 since the former has a superior chemical composition. Regardless, think I'm set on getting a RHK now. Thanks !

 

[Liekme]

Guys, if anyone else wants to insert their experience with RHK Xm18 3.5" (any aspects of the knife) as of now please do so, it may be helpful for others who's contemplating about getting their first RHK. Because all I could get were old reviews that dates back 5-7 years ago haha. Can't wait to get my RHK ! Cheers and thank you all once more for the help.

 

[me2]

To be honest, I'm pretty shocked to see that CPM20cv has an on par level of edge retention as VG10 since the former has a superior chemical composition. Regardless, think I'm set on getting a RHK now. Thanks !

I don't know that I'd say it's superior, just it has more stuff in it. The differences in steels for knife use are sometimes implied to be greater than they are, usually unintentionally. HAP40 for example is a great high speed steel, but much of that is wasted on knives used to cut food by hand.

 

[Accelerator]

I find that Hinderer's 20CV is very good, superior to S35VN. I despise S35VN in any knife. While it may be easier to work with from a manufacturing standpoint, I just don't care for its edge holding ability. It will go from a hair popping edge to a working edge in nothing more than a light breeze. Yes, that's an exaggeration, but I've been unimpressed with it and therefore will never again buy a knife in that steel. In fact, I have sold off every knife I've had in S35VN over the past year or two, except for an XM-24. As soon a Rick realeses a 24 (not wharncliffe) in M390 or 20CV, my current one is going up for sale.

Now, before someone opens up the "edge geometry" conversation, the above statement was based on brands, blade styles, grinds, and geometry of all kinds. I am confident that I have given "35" a fair shake, and just don't care for it. That being said, that is just my personal opinion, YMMV.

OP, if you have the capability of successfully sharpening a knife, you should have no trouble sharpening 20CV. It is quite user friendly from a sharpening standpoint. Nothing like 90V or the like.

Lastly, I have never had an issue with chipping or rolling with any of my XM's with 20CV. I've had other brands in the past with other steel types, most often S30V, that were chipomatics. They would chip like crazy. I am fairly hard in my knives, but then again, I don't use them as nail pullers or pry bars either. I've been EDC'ing a Hinderer in 20CV for almost 3 years now. I have multiples that I rotate. None of those knives have shown any issues with chipping or rolling. I am confident that you will have no issues either.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, hopefully that helps.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[Liekme]

I find that Hinderer's 20CV is very good, superior to S35VN. I despise S35VN in any knife. While it may be easier to work with from a manufacturing standpoint, I just don't care for its edge holding ability. It will go from a hair popping edge to a working edge in nothing more than a light breeze. Yes, that's an exaggeration, but I've been unimpressed with it and therefore will never again buy a knife in that steel. In fact, I have sold off every knife I've had in S35VN over the past year or two, except for an XM-24. As soon a Rick realeses a 24 (not wharncliffe) in M390 or 20CV, my current one is going up for sale.

Now, before someone opens up the "edge geometry" conversation, the above statement was based on brands, blade styles, grinds, and geometry of all kinds. I am confident that I have given "35" a fair shake, and just don't care for it. That being said, that is just my personal opinion, YMMV.

OP, if you have the capability of successfully sharpening a knife, you should have no trouble sharpening 20CV. It is quite user friendly from a sharpening standpoint. Nothing like 90V or the like.

Lastly, I have never had an issue with chipping or rolling with any of my XM's with 20CV. I've had other brands in the past with other steel types, most often S30V, that were chipomatics. They would chip like crazy. I am fairly hard in my knives, but then again, I don't use them as nail pullers or pry bars either. I've been EDC'ing a Hinderer in 20CV for almost 3 years now. I have multiples that I rotate. None of those knives have shown any issues with chipping or rolling. I am confident that you will have no issues either.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, hopefully that helps.

Welcome to the forum!

This is exactly what I need to fuel myself to get a RHK. Now I'm dead set on getting one haha. Reason why I fear sharpening the 20cv is that the only sharpening system I have is the Lansky Alumina-oxide (ones with rods and stuff) and currently have no funds to get an upgrade since most of it is going into the RHK lol. I dont mind if it will take a while to sharpen 20cv, as long as it CAN be sharpen, then Im all set haha.

I have to agree with you on the 20cv steel, currently I have a 0562cf in 20cv, that thing's edge hasnt dull a single bit after cutting through plastics and whatnot lol. On the otherhand, my Spyderco Yojimbo 2 in S30v got a tiny chip after it was banged a tad bit on some solid material.

You speak of "angle geometry", do you recommend making a second "mini-bevel" on the 20cv ? Also, thanks for the warm wishes and insight, really needed that !

 

[Liekme]

I don't know that I'd say it's superior, just it has more stuff in it. The differences in steels for knife use are sometimes implied to be greater than they are, usually unintentionally. HAP40 for example is a great high speed steel, but much of that is wasted on knives used to cut food by hand.

I see, this is pretty surprising to me. I've always thought composition is what determines a knife's overall performance (including proper HT)

 

[Peter Hartwig]

This is exactly what I need to fuel myself to get a RHK. Now I'm dead set on getting one haha. Reason why I fear sharpening the 20cv is that the only sharpening system I have is the Lansky Alumina-oxide (ones with rods and stuff) and currently have no funds to get an upgrade since most of it is going into the RHK lol. I dont mind if it will take a while to sharpen 20cv, as long as it CAN be sharpen, then Im all set haha. !

This holds true with other steels as well, but maintaining your edge is easiest if you don't let it get dull. Then it is just stropping and a little quick touch up to get the edge back. This is probably pretty obvious, but I am sure I am not the only one that puts things off to another day.

 

[Liekme]

This holds true with other steels as well, but maintaining your edge is easiest if you don't let it get dull. Then it is just stropping and a little quick touch up to get the edge back. This is probably pretty obvious, but I am sure I am not the only one that puts things off to another day.

Agreed. Hence why we have more than just "1 knife" haha. One goes dull, take another , that one goes dull, take another. But rarely my knives go dull unless I abused it (did that once with 8cr13mov, expected since this isnt a super steel to begin with, but popping it back is easy)

 

[Accelerator]

This is exactly what I need to fuel myself to get a RHK. Now I'm dead set on getting one haha. Reason why I fear sharpening the 20cv is that the only sharpening system I have is the Lansky Alumina-oxide (ones with rods and stuff) and currently have no funds to get an upgrade since most of it is going into the RHK lol. I dont mind if it will take a while to sharpen 20cv, as long as it CAN be sharpen, then Im all set haha.

I have to agree with you on the 20cv steel, currently I have a 0562cf in 20cv, that thing's edge hasnt dull a single bit after cutting through plastics and whatnot lol. On the otherhand, my Spyderco Yojimbo 2 in S30v got a tiny chip after it was banged a tad bit on some solid material.

You speak of "angle geometry", do you recommend making a second "mini-bevel" on the 20cv ? Also, thanks for the warm wishes and insight, really needed that !

I have a few different sharpeners that I use for different types of knives; edc folders, kitchen knives, fixed blades, etc. To make things easy on myself, on my XM's, I reprofile to 20 degrees and then maintain on a sharpmaker. I don't worry about a micro bevel. I prefer to keep things simple. Regular maintenance with a strop and occasionally a few swipes on my sharpmaker and it is always good to go.

 

[me2]

I see, this is pretty surprising to me. I've always thought composition is what determines a knife's overall performance (including proper HT)

That is true. However, few compositions are intended to be optimal in hand held knives. To stick with HAP40, its intended to cut other metals at high enough speed to turn the cutting edge red hot. The composition is formulated to provide the properties required to do that. There is not a lot in common with that and use in a kitchen or pocket knife.

Many of today's super steels are intended primarily as mold or die steels for abrasive and corrosive plastic injection molding. Again, not a lot in common with use in hand held knives, but they still work ok.