Do the Rick Hinderer's Xm18 CPM20cv chip/roll ?

[HowAmI]

I don't know about the S35VN. I have only used 20cv in a Hinderer. I compared it to a Spyderco Delica in Vg10. The edge holding was about the same or just slightly behind the Delica cutting cardboard. For rougher use, chopping bamboo skewers, the Hinderer was a bit ahead. I was testing for high sharpness edge retention. Had I kept going, the Hinderer probably would have pulled ahead, but I stopped the test when the edges failed to slice a plastic grocery bag.

I'm comparing S110V and CTS BD1 now and so far I can't see a difference on cardboard. I have some more cutting to do this weekend, but I'm at 400 feet of cardboard per blade right now, so probably won't go much further. If I were just carrying these knives, I would have sharpened both already.

Don't know where you got your information, but 20CV will NOT have the same edge retention as VG-10 for any material.

 

[Gaston444]

Don't know where you got your information, but 20CV will NOT have the same edge retention as VG-10 for any material.

He got his information from actually cutting stuff...

He said he was testing for high sharpness edge retention, cutting a plastic grocery bag of unknown thickness as a lower benchmark, which can throw all over the place any notion you may have of how these steels "rank"...

Most people with such definite content-based notions think newer steels=better, and more alloys=better, even when the materials cut and the minimum sharpness is not specified... This is why marketing works.

For a more reality based approach, see how a $1 Chinese knife in something like 420 is virtually undistinguishable from CPM M4 or K390, this over a huge amount of cutting correctly randomized material...:

Note at the end the issue of "Cognitive bias" in testing...

Gaston

 

[me2]

I got the info from cutting cardboard. The bags are the usual plastic bags used atvthe local grocery store, light plastic maybe 0.001" thick. Am edge that fails to start a cut in one will usually still shave my arm. See the video below as an example, though that's clearly not a Delica or XM18.

Skip to 3:40 to see the bag cut.

 

[Liekme]

I have a few different sharpeners that I use for different types of knives; edc folders, kitchen knives, fixed blades, etc. To make things easy on myself, on my XM's, I reprofile to 20 degrees and then maintain on a sharpmaker. I don't worry about a micro bevel. I prefer to keep things simple. Regular maintenance with a strop and occasionally a few swipes on my sharpmaker and it is always good to go.

noted. Will keep that in mind . Thanks !

That is true. However, few compositions are intended to be optimal in hand held knives. To stick with HAP40, its intended to cut other metals at high enough speed to turn the cutting edge red hot. The composition is formulated to provide the properties required to do that. There is not a lot in common with that and use in a kitchen or pocket knife.

Many of today's super steels are intended primarily as mold or die steels for abrasive and corrosive plastic injection molding. Again, not a lot in common with use in hand held knives, but they still work ok.

I see, that's very good info . Thanks for sharing !

 

[HowAmI]

He got his information from actually cutting stuff...

He said he was testing for high sharpness edge retention, cutting a plastic grocery bag of unknown thickness as a lower benchmark, which can throw all over the place any notion you may have of how these steels "rank"...

Most people with such definite content-based notions think newer steels=better, and more alloys=better, even when the materials cut and the minimum sharpness is not specified... This is why marketing works.

For a more reality based approach, see how a $1 Chinese knife in something like 420 is virtually undistinguishable from CPM M4 or K390, this over a huge amount of cutting correctly randomized material...:

Note at the end the issue of "Cognitive bias" in testing...

Gaston

First off calm down, as my comment was not in a aggressive tone. A new PM steel will always be better than a cheap alphabet soup steel. As for edge retention, before you make assumptions as I know you will... I did not see the "high" (razor edge) sharpness part even after reading this thread a few times...

 

[me2]

How will it always be better? VG10 is far from a cheap alphabet soup steel. My understanding is it was developed as a stainless for plant grafting blades. If that is true, it is one of the few steels designed for use in hand held knives.

As above, the differences in steels for knife use are often exaggerated. There is a comparison by a YouTube reviewer that shows a 10 to 15 percent difference between HAP40 and Super Blue steels when used in knives. That is consistent with some work I've been doing recently with other steels.

The thing to remember is HAP40 wasn't intended for knives. Much of its alloy content is not useful for that purpose. However, it still works pretty good. However, try Super Blue add a high speed steel. You can't really even make the comparison. Super Blue will turn to Jello under that type of use.

Most of the PM super steels are for mold and dies. Not much in common with hand knives, but they work ok.