Do we still teach Science in our High Schools?

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(( Keep politics in the Political Arena ))

This is the wrong forum to get into politics. I am more interested in the different experience that we have had with respect to science education across the different time frames and locations, to understand whether the decline in the teaching of science is a real and uniform trend, or just a local issue.

n2s
 
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I think they still teach it. Problem is there are always budget issues. We can spend $700k to get a shrimp to run on a treadmill (look it up) but the schools get the budget cuts.

I know they still do teach dissections of certain things like larvae here in Washington state. I know because my nephew ate the live grub on a dare. His Mother's a teacher... It didn’t go over well at home. Me.... I thought it was hilarious.
 
I think that if I hunted around here I would find my dissection kit from highschool biology. I think I still have it somewhere with the scalpel and the sharp pointed scissors and probes all fitting into a carrying case. It was a required school material for that class.
 
I am a certified science teacher (Biology, Chemistry) who has taught science primarily in the Pacific Islands for decades. A graduate of the University of California (Berkeley), I have passed Praxis qualification exams, National Teacher Examinations and so on - so I am not unqualified academically. While I am surprised to have the topic brought up in a knife discussion forum, I am very happy to see that citizens are concerned about education and the level of science teaching in their communities.

As I see it, there is a real problem with science education because schools and school boards do not want to invest in real "hands-on" science education and are afraid of any laboratory work that might conceivably injure any student and bring about a lawsuit or any kind of complaint. There is also a fear of any kind of controversial topic (birth control, global warming, evolutionary theory) that might have parents up in arms - from either the "liberal" or the "conservative" side. As I see public education in modern America, qualified science teachers are put in a straitjacket where they must spend most of their time writing lesson plans that are scrutinized by people unqualified in science and must teach reading and basic math skills that are the major emphasis of standardized tests. Lab facilities and lab equipment are not part of the budget plan, although schools try to use computers as a substitute for actual laboratory work. Computer simulations can be useful, but they are no substitute for the real thing.

Some very good science programs and curricula that emphasize lab and field work do exist, and recent texts have done a good job emphasizing safety and removing toxic chemicals from school labs. However, there is a real problem when a class in marine science is not allowed to go on a field trip in the ocean because an administrator will not allow it or when parents do not want their children to handle scalpels. The often irrational fear of AIDS or of any kind of contamination now requires that biology be taught with artificial blood, artificial urine and no bacterial cultures- and do not even think of having live animals or plants in a classroom.

A lack of maturity, common sense, discipline and common courtesy on the part of too many students is a serious problem, and some parents seem to encourage the sense of entitlement and lack of responsibility that is too common. As a Peace Corps volunteer teacher in Westem Samoa, I taught students who paid fees to go to school and who had to pass a test to be admitted to high school. At that time, there was no compulsory education and a village had to raise money to build its own school. Schools were not broken into because the school belonged to the village was watched over by the village. Samoan students also worked on the plantation, cooked over open fires and did household chores. Before attending school, they had already learned the basic safety rules needed for laboratory work: sharp things cut and hot things burn. Modern students in the USA too often do not have such a background.

Please let me end this rant, as I am starting to sound like my father (who grew up on a farm before WWII) telling me about how easy the younger generation has it. There is no easy solution to the problem of science education, but I feel that a good start can be made by recruiting qualified teachers, providing them with a supportive environment and adequate resources, then leaving them alone to do the of teaching science. If the USA cannot make such a commitment, then we will suffer a severe lack of nurses, doctors, scientists and engineers. We will also see a continued lack of science literacy in our society.
Faiaoga ("schoolteacher" in Samoan)
 
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Good article on school science laboratory safety (not2sharp post). Unfortunately, my experience has been that school administrators do not want to hear about the need for adequate space, safety equipment and student discipline. Problems will be ignored until an incident occurs, then the teacher is blamed.

I was assigned to a new school where the safety showers did not have drains in the floor. The school principal said, in effect, "Put up and shut up". I was also assigned a remedial math class to be taught in a chemistry lab room. When a student decided to practice karate chops on a test tube and badly cut himself, the lack of locking storage drawers for test tubes and other glassware was not addressed. Again, problems are ignored or the teacher is blamed. Too often, teachers will avoid performing lab activities for fear of liability issues.
Faiaoga :cool:
 
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I graduated two years ago, and we did some in all three of my science classes but not much considering the amount of equipment the school had. The advanced classes didn't even do that much. But then again we also spend a month and a half of my junior year with the teachers on strike for them to get paid for and to have more benefits even though they are the third highest paid in the state.
Jparisi48 - I agree with you, we had the same problems. Pervert teachers, ones that don't care, the drunks and drug dealers (during and after school), the administration that was power hungry, the list just keeps going on. Wrong generation for sure. I fear for what our kids and kids kids will go through.
 
I'm 19, and I very recently graduated high-school.Now, I had a good experience, but I live in a small town, and the people round here tend to be the sort that use common sense. I dissected all kinds of critters in my advanced science course. I dissected perch, rabbits, birds, a snake, lizards, frogs, a pig, and even a lamprey. I also made various acids and bases for experiments, worked with a burner, and once made a biofuel and burnt with a near invisible flame. I got pretty high marks for, and I quote "Independent experimentation." Now, all that said: I know people from other districts, and they won't let them work with a pair of scissors, much less a dead pig and a scalpel. I can't really fathom WHY some districts are so anemic on science, it's a really interesting and useful class when properly taught.
 
I graduated in 2008. I'm a credit away from a BS in Biology now. Yes I have to do another semester for that one credit. Next year I will hopefully be enrolled in a PhD program for ecology and evolution. My high school science education was somewhat lacking, but we did do labs, mostly plant labs, and learn to use microscopes to look at cells, and we did at least one dissection. It could have been better, but it wasn't horrible. I had one really good high school science teacher in Chem 2.

My sister is in high school now. Her science class, "integrated lab sciences," they got rid of freshman bio and replaced it with what essentially amounts to remedial science for all students including honors students. The material is idiotic mind numbing dribble such as learning to write lab reports on fifth grade experiments (think cola challenge), that they didn't even do. On top of that her teacher is a... I believe "nitwit" would be the most appropriate term for this particular forum. He has been teaching that a hypothesis is the solution to the problem, which is wrong. Then he tells them to write lab reports in the first person, which is a horribly bad habit for any formal writing assignment.

Oh and apparently they don't teach evolution anymore around here. But that shouldn't be that surprising since this high school ranked among the worst, if not the worst, in the state, a few years back. It may have been on a larger scale, I'll have to do some digging
 
I have all those classes and have disected frogs, used microscopes, bunsen burnings, and made sawdust bombs in school.
 
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I work for my state education agency in science, and before that I taught science in the public schools for 12 years. We REQUIRE that high school science classes include laboratory investigations.

When I was teaching middle school I let my kids do every reasonably safe experiment I could think of that matched the standards. I'm please to say there were kids that hated every other part of their school day but loved my class. I felt like I had an obligation to try and help them love science as much as I did.
 
I just graduated this may, I had real science class. In biology we fully dissected a fetal pig and looked through every little thing and we did the same with a frog. We used micro scopes and all that stuff.
In chemistry the next year we turned gummy bears in to jet rockets, experimented with different types of acids and the affects they have on elements. Though from a select few students there are spots in some of the lab tables where some higher strength acids ate through a bit of the tables. I can't count how many times we caught something on fire for a test (controlled of course...well mostly, accidents happen)
Though not too long ago a chem teacher had an accident at my school and was life flighted to pitt hospital for arm and facial 3rd degree burns. He was making a smoke bomb as a fun experiment to show the kids and something went wrong somewhere and well...potassium nitrate isn't friendly to skin.. :(

Its a shame to hear that schools aren't teaching it the way it should anymore. On a side note my school changed to this "new math" for 8th grade and below and i don't understand it. I graduated with an A in calculus too...
 
I'm in high school now, and I can totally relate. Some classes are better( like anatomy) but the generals are terrible about hands on experience. I feel like almost every teacher is just "teaching to the test". There is so little opportunity for advancement because the teachers are too busy dragging the lazy kids along that they don't have any time to actually teach the kids who want to learn. If America wants to stay on top, while places like china and India are rapidly catching up, we need to make leaders, not try to drag people (who don't care if they succeed) up to a standard.


This is sadly true in many places, but bear in mind that most teachers HATE this test-driven nonsense but are forced to do it because of mandates created by policy wonks who have no teaching credentials or experience (but many ties to the lucrative test materials industry).
 
Instructors qualified ? NO ! Read " The dumbing Down Of America " There was a time when the powers that be thought that you didn't need a science degree to teach science you only needed to know how to teach science !! Gone then were the teachers who had a real in depth knowledge of science and those who had a real love of science and passed that love to their students.
When I was in college in the early '60s the ranking of the SAT scores was an indicator .The lower scoring students went into PE or similar majors. Today ? the lower scoring students become teachers !
This has become a terrible thing for the future of this country. As an engineer from the old days I'm apalled at the lack of even the simplest knowledge of science needed for every day living.

As a former teacher I can tell you that most of us are actually over qualified. Since the passing of NCLB laws, the bar has been raised quite high over the years. The lack of hands on training of students is more about shrinking budgets and potential lawsuits. Another reason why some teachers may seem to be unqualified is because many of the truly gifted ones like myself take our skills out into the open market and start making real money for our time and efforts. Some teachers that stay in the profession are there because they care about the kids. One should also keep in mind, even the "lowly teachers" that can't make it anywhere else are still a good deal more intelligent than your average parent that expects the school system to raise their children for them. I hope this really offends the rotten parents that keep filling the public school systems with bad apples that prevent good Christian children from getting a decent education. Please, please, please homeschool your kids so they are no longer a burden to the public. Don't worry, people like me will still be out there working to give you food stamps and we will even send a couple of cops over to take your little darlings to their permanent homes when they are old enough to be tried as adults. God bless America and Merry Christmas to all.

Unklfranco
 
So, if not tests, then what?

What is the alternative plan?

The problem isn't with the tests. The problem is that teachers are teaching students how to pass standardized tests instead of teaching the subject they are supposed to be teaching. I remember in high school that we had two weeks dedicated to nothing other than studying for standardized tests. What is the point of that?
 
I seem to recall that all of these tests were instituted because the students didn't seem to be learning. So, while maybe the tests aren't the answer, but goin back to "the old way" doesn't seem like a viable option. So, what is the solution?
 
I seem to recall that all of these tests were instituted because the students didn't seem to be learning. So, while maybe the tests aren't the answer, but goin back to "the old way" doesn't seem like a viable option. So, what is the solution?

Maybe you've missed my point so I'll restate. Tests are not the problem. The problem is that teachers are forced to teach students how to pass standardized tests. Standardized tests are NOT a teaching tool nor are they intended to be. They are a method of data collection to show where students need improvement. When teachers teach student test taking skills instead of subject skills, they completely undermine the entire purpose of the tests. That's like doing a drug trial and telling the patients whether they are receiving a placebo or the real thing, absolutely pointless. The tests should be used to determine where students are struggling and why. So to answer your question, we have no other solution, because the method devised for developing solutions is rendered ineffective by school boards making policies that will make the school look good. So the solution is quite simple, stop teaching students how to pass a standardized test and start teaching the subject material, then we can see where the problem is and make some attempt to fix it.
 
And yet we still face this serious problem that colleges and universities are (and have been for many years) finding incoming freshman ill-prepared.

"Teach-the-test" is absolutely the wrong approach for primary educators to take; there can be no doubt about that. Why not actually teach students the subject matter so that they pass the tests not because of their superior test-taking skills but because of their knowledge of the subject?

I am reminded of an automobile component called an "air pump." It added air to the exhaust gas to dilute it. The strategy was know as "secondary air injection." At the time, late 60s and early 70s, the emissions rules restricted only the concentration of pollutants exhaust gas with no consideration of volume. So, instead of cleaning up their dirty engines and actually reducing the amount of pollutants emitted, they just added this air pump thing to dilute the exhaust to pass the test. We all recognize this as wrong... legal, maybe, but wrong. We all recognize this as lazy; instead of making the investments and efforts necessary to actually lower emissions for engines, they used this approach which some might even describe as "cheating." It passes the test and gives the appearance of a cleaner engine, but it fails to achieve the real goal of reducing the amount of pollutants emitted into the environment.

Instead of making the necessary efforts and investments to teach students the subject matter, schools and teachers just teach the students to take the tests better. This gives the appearance of better schools, but it fails to achieve the actual goal of preparing and educating our children.

So, if we can recognize this problem, what can we do about it?

BTW, I am seriously interested to hear -- especially from the educators here -- some possible answers to this problem?
 
And yet we still face this serious problem that colleges and universities are (and have been for many years) finding incoming freshman ill-prepared.

Well, part of that is that high schools push that college is the only way to go. Add to that is the fact that there are an increasing number of jobs that now require a college degree that really do not need to require a college degree. This causes students to enroll in college that do not belong there.

"Teach-the-test" is absolutely the wrong approach for primary educators to take; there can be no doubt about that. Why not actually teach students the subject matter so that they pass the tests not because of their superior test-taking skills but because of their knowledge of the subject?

This is exactly what I'm saying. The tests are education researchers way of finding problems and the results are destroyed by the current instructional method. We can't find exactly where students are needing improvement so we really can't do anything about it.
 
The problem isn't with the tests. The problem is that teachers are teaching students how to pass standardized tests instead of teaching the subject they are supposed to be teaching. I remember in high school that we had two weeks dedicated to nothing other than studying for standardized tests. What is the point of that?


This is true, and most teachers are not happy with this. The thing that is supposed to "measure" teaching and learning ends up distorting it by driving instruction. This phenomenon is called Campbell's Law. Since school funding and even teacher evaluations are tied to test scores, everyone is pressured to focus on test prep instead of actual education, and it is ruining schools and damaging the profession. It is, however, enriching people who are involved with the companies like Pearson that create the tests and the related materials.

Here are my imperfect thoughts for improving things:

1. Allow actual experienced teachers and educators to formulate education policy rather than lawyers, politicians, and businessmen/women.

2. Deemphasize high stakes, standardized testing. Use the huge amounts of time and money wasted on that for real instruction and other needs.

3. Here is the important one; focus more effort on ameliorating child poverty. The US has a child poverty rate of 25% - more than any other advanced nation. In fact, if you deaggregate international test scores (PISA), and control for poverty, the US is right up there near the top.

Sorry for the political content; this has been on my mind (full disclosure - I'm a high school Latin teacher).
 
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