Do you believe, and more discussion.

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Religion notwithstanding, as that was not what I perceived the OP's intent to be; do I believe that there are manifestations or events that are beyond scientific understanding or that don't fall within the "laws of the nature"?

Of course!

I also believe I will have another drink, as it is snowing like heck and going to get much colder where I am currently trapped.

best

mqqn
 
I believe that aliens have never visited Earth. They look for intelligence in the universe and there is none to be found here.

this-is-why-aliens-wont-talk-to-us-meme-4199.jpg
 
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Today's belief.

Blessed is he who, in the name of charity and good will, shepherds the weak through the valley of the darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy My brothers.
 
Well I'm glad to see you folks have gotten this squared away. :p

It's an interesting topic. One I've discussed a few times myself lol. And one I've tried to read, study, and reason my way through. Goodness the religious texts I've plowed through. To no avail I'll admit. In all my studies I came across only one thing I'm certain of:

Every single religion or explanation of how/why we are here (including atheism!) falls woefully, comically short of doing the job. They're all ridiculous. Including my own beliefs.

Science, religion, logic, whatever you want to try will never explain either why we're here. So I give people the benefit of the doubt. It's a problem humans just can't and won't solve.

Will
 
Science, religion, logic, whatever you want to try will never explain either why we're here. So I give people the benefit of the doubt. It's a problem humans just can't and won't solve.
I beg to respectfully differ, Will. It's a problem man HAS solved, or rather, God has revealed it to us. I believe the Christian Bible, as opposed to the Koran, Bhagavad Gita, Greek and Roman and Norse myths, etc., is the ONLY true explanation as to why we are here and where we are headed. Why not take Pascal's wager and live as though God (as revealed in the Bible) did exist? What do you have to lose?

I saw an interesting movie once, starring Sidney Poitier, called Lillies of the Field. It came out in the early 1960's. There is a character ("Juan", I think) who is a café owner who at one point tells the protagonist that he does not believe what the priest and nuns in the movie are teaching. He is basically an atheist, if I remember correctly. Later in the film he is helping the local people and the protagonist build a chapel the nuns wanted built. Poitier's character asks Juan why he is doing this, since he is an atheist? "Insurance, señor. Insurance!"

It's a funny answer, and I recommend the film (I think Poitier was nominated ----maybe won-- for Best Actor.) If the Bible is not true and you don't believe it, you've lost nothing. But if it IS true, there will be hell to pay. Worth thinking about....
 
I have made some effort, unguided and limited though it is, over a lot of years, to try and figure out for myself what the story is with religions and their beliefs, mainly christianity.

I have not yet found sufficient reason to warrant belief in the existence of any deity. Most certainly, not in any specific deity.

I have found what seem to me to be reasonable arguments against the existence of any deity, as depicted by any mainstream religion.

It will take time to expand on any of that, and I'm off to work in 10 minutes. Will check back in in a day or so.
 
I beg to respectfully differ, Will. It's a problem man HAS solved, or rather, God has revealed it to us. I believe the Christian Bible, as opposed to the Koran, Bhagavad Gita, Greek and Roman and Norse myths, etc., is the ONLY true explanation as to why we are here and where we are headed. Why not take Pascal's wager and live as though God (as revealed in the Bible) did exist? What do you have to lose?

I saw an interesting movie once, starring Sidney Poitier, called Lillies of the Field. It came out in the early 1960's. There is a character ("Juan", I think) who is a café owner who at one point tells the protagonist that he does not believe what the priest and nuns in the movie are teaching. He is basically an atheist, if I remember correctly. Later in the film he is helping the local people and the protagonist build a chapel the nuns wanted built. Poitier's character asks Juan why he is doing this, since he is an atheist? "Insurance, señor. Insurance!"

It's a funny answer, and I recommend the film (I think Poitier was nominated ----maybe won-- for Best Actor.) If the Bible is not true and you don't believe it, you've lost nothing. But if it IS true, there will be hell to pay. Worth thinking about....

I was raised very strictly to be a Southern Baptist. Things in life changed me, and I no longer can see what I used to believe. I’m unable to define myself as a Christian. I still read the Bible (most of it). I still pray. I won’t enter a church out of respect to believers. Do you believe that Jesus would teach that nonbelievers should act like Christians? I don’t mean that they should be good. I mean do you think Jesus would want me to fake it?
 
I was raised very strictly to be a Southern Baptist. Things in life changed me, and I no longer can see what I used to believe. I’m unable to define myself as a Christian. I still read the Bible (most of it). I still pray. I won’t enter a church out of respect to believers. Do you believe that Jesus would teach that nonbelievers should act like Christians? I don’t mean that they should be good. I mean do you think Jesus would want me to fake it?
No, you shouldn't fake it. Not really what I meant. But I do believe that truth is absolute, not relative. There can only be one true religion because they contradict each other. I know there are divisions even among Christians. That there are Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox shows that. And among Protestants you have Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc. Hey, we're sinners! But the sincere ones love Jesus Christ, and want to obey him. There is much Christians agree on. I believe each one of us should endeavor to find and know the truth. I believe we can find it. I believe I have found it, and I'd be lying if I said I hadn't.
I would say keep reading the Bible and keep praying. Pray with the Psalmist: "Open thou mine eyes that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law." Psalm 119:18.
 
No, you shouldn't fake it. Not really what I meant. But I do believe that truth is absolute, not relative. There can only be one true religion because they contradict each other. I know there are divisions even among Christians. That there are Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox shows that. And among Protestants you have Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, etc. Hey, we're sinners! But the sincere ones love Jesus Christ, and want to obey him. There is much Christians agree on. I believe each one of us should endeavor to find and know the truth. I believe we can find it. I believe I have found it, and I'd be lying if I said I hadn't.
I would say keep reading the Bible and keep praying. Pray with the Psalmist: "Open thou mine eyes that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law." Psalm 119:18.

For the record, I wasn’t trying to be confrontational. It just rubs me the wrong way to see a suggestion to behave contrary to my nature, because as I said in a different post in this thread, I believe that is more or less wrong. But, your response is very appreciable and worth consideration.
 
Every single religion or explanation of how/why we are here (including atheism!) falls woefully, comically short of doing the job. They're all ridiculous. Including my own beliefs.

May I point out that atheism is not a religion or explanation, it is simply a lack of belief in a deity.


Why not take Pascal's wager and live as though God (as revealed in the Bible) did exist? What do you have to lose?...
... If the Bible is not true and you don't believe it, you've lost nothing. But if it IS true, there will be hell to pay. Worth thinking about....

Pascals wager, applied as you have said here, wouldn't that logically require a belief in all other religions too, in case one of them is true? Which is impossible as religions are typically exclusive of any other beliefs outside their own.

History shows that what we have to lose, on a big picture societal level, is the rate of advancement of humanity and our civilization if too many people subscribe to Pascals wager.
 
For the record, I wasn’t trying to be confrontational. It just rubs me the wrong way to see a suggestion to behave contrary to my nature, because as I said in a different post in this thread, I believe that is more or less wrong. But, your response is very appreciable and worth consideration.

Read Matthew 7: 21-23
 
Pascals wager, applied as you have said here, wouldn't that logically require a belief in all other religions too, in case one of them is true? Which is impossible as religions are typically exclusive of any other beliefs outside their own.

How else would you apply Pascal’s wager?


History shows that what we have to lose, on a big picture societal level, is the rate of advancement of humanity and our civilization if too many people subscribe to Pascals wager.

Where has history shown this?
 
I have made some effort, unguided and limited though it is, over a lot of years, to try and figure out for myself what the story is with religions and their beliefs, mainly christianity.

I have not yet found sufficient reason to warrant belief in the existence of any deity. Most certainly, not in any specific deity.

I have found what seem to me to be reasonable arguments against the existence of any deity, as depicted by any mainstream religion.

It will take time to expand on any of that, and I'm off to work in 10 minutes. Will check back in in a day or so.


Except maybe for agnostics, you believe or you don't. People for as long as they had the ability to ask why? have believed in gods of all sorts. They needed something or someone to blame for their problems and
to explain things that the couldn't understand, so they invented gods. I don't remember who said it, but, "There is more of man in God than there is of God in man."

Most religions believe that theirs is the only true religion. If only two of them are wrong, then all are wrong.
 
Except maybe for agnostics, you believe or you don't. People for as long as they had the ability to ask why? have believed in gods of all sorts. They needed something or someone to blame for their problems and
to explain things that the couldn't understand, so they invented gods. I don't remember who said it, but, "There is more of man in God than there is of God in man."

Most religions believe that theirs is the only true religion. If only two of them are wrong, then all are wrong.

I think it's important to differentiate between believe and know.

Atheism/Theism refers to belief.
Agnostic, or gnostic, refers to knowledge or lack thereof. From the Greek Gnosis, typically applied to religious or philosophical matters.

An agnostic atheist is aware that they don't empirically know there is/isn't a God/Gods, but does not believe there is due to insufficient reason/evidence to do so.

Generally speaking, the controlling nature of religions shows the intent of them, to manipulate, influence and control a society or group of people. A very human thing indeed.
 
How else would you apply Pascal’s wager?


Where has history shown this?

I was pointing out that Pascals wager, it seems to me, cannot be logically applied to just one religious belief structure - for example, christianity. The reasoning previously posted indicated it could.



Historically, the collapse of the Roman Empire left christianity to take advantage of its already developed power base, thanks to Constantine's selection of it as the empires sole religion, as a political and social means of unification and control.

Christianity cemented its power base by forcing people to turn away from anything that contradicted the strict beliefs it insisted on, and actively sought to destroy and ususrp other competing religions/beliefs.
As the Dark Ages ensued, and on through Medieval times, freethought and open minded inquiry was stringently suppressed by christianity.
We lost over a thousand years before this domination and stern restriction of the western worlds cultures slowly, step by step, was pushed aside in order to allow the development of knowledge, understanding, learning, free study, to continue in a manner similar to what was started by Greco-Roman civilization.

As the first millenium CE progressed, the Arab world became a repository of knowledge, the place where scholars and freethinkers went to study and learn, unhindered by christianity's denouncement of such. That lasted until the Islamic religions gained sufficient power to force their beliefs onto their societies.

Richard, I would have liked to put more time into those comments however I'm about to head off for another 12 hour night shift and could only post of the top of my head.

I welcome any further comments or questions.
 
I’m already there. I’m not a Christian. I’m fine with where I’m at.

Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car........Max Lucado
Christian - one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
 
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