Do you carry Honey in your gear?

I tend to agree that the medicinal values of plants could possibly be passed to the honey. I guess it would depend on several factors, but those medicinal values, or at least the plants ability to manufacture them, should be present in the pollen I would think.
 
I'd be worried about the mess factor if your container broke. I guess a small Nalgene bottle would work, and putting it inside a ziploc bag for extra protection is definitely a good idea. I had a friend who was carrying some honey while hitchhiking. The container broke, and all his clothing was covered with honey. From his description of the event, it was quite a cleanup job.
--Josh
 
How about packing those little packets of honey in a puncture-resistant, water-tight seal container? Use only the portioned amounts you need without the pouring mess. Personally, I don't take honey on outings because of the potential mess.

Also, don't forget to bring the "two-legged honey" for those cold nights under the stars. ;)
 
BTW there is a dressing available that contains dextrose, invented by the medical 'profession', I wonder where they got that idea ?? Of course they will tell you that using honey is nonsense !!!!
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Your contempt for medical science is tragically misplaced.

Many modern medicines are derived from plants, or what you would refer to as "natural" sources. "Natural" and "pharmaceutical" are largely irrelevant, anyway; a chemical is a chemical no matter where it comes from. Whether from bees or dextrose applied to the dressing in a lab, it's still a sugar.

Medical science rejects the methods that do not work and improves upon the ones that do. "They" would not tell you that using honey is nonsense because the effects of sugar in wound healing have been shown to be quite promising. And the key thing is, there is a logical and provable reason behind its usefulness, which makes it fall into medical science rather than reactionary anti-medical "natural" methods that work only psychosomatically, if at all.

If you really feel the need to bash modern medicine, at least consider how much life expectancy and has improved since all of these superstitious treatments were largely abandoned as the only means of treating disease.
 
You should take a look at:

www.medihoney.com

I read recently that this has exceptional wound healing properties. I believe its just been licensed for use in UK hospitals.
D.
 
I have a problem with modern medical practices and the drug companies and I have no problem at all putting it out there for people to read.

For instance, there is a documented cure for diabetes. So. American tribal medicine people have been curing it for years with a mixture of plants and it only takes 1 week to do it. Why aren't they using it here? Because they make billions off of treating the disease. The drug companies and researchers let people suffer and rot from disease so that they can make more money.

Longevity of life isn't as important as quality of life. If you're slowly rotting away from a disease that they can cure, that isn't quality of life. That's existing at the mercy of people that could actually cure you.

Now the old medicine people are dying off and the wisdom they posses isn't being handed down to future generations because they are being displaced for beef raising and the forests that contain the ingredients are being cut down and burned. Again, because of western greed.

Another thing that needs to be brought up here is that just because one ingredient, in of itself, doesn't contain any useful medicinal benefits according to western science, when combined with other ingredients, they become very powerful medicines. This is something that modern research has dismissed from the very beginning and have called, as you stated, psychosomatic. The people that used those remedies have done so for 10s of thousands of years and after all of that time, you don't use what doesn't work.

Plus, you leave out other obvious parts of any healing process. The patient must trust and believe that the doctor knows what he's doing and must believe that the medicine will cure them. If that is what you refer to as psychosomatic, so be it. Most of a healing is not only physical, but mental and spiritual. Something that so called modern science is just starting to see and the so called stone age practitioners have knows for 1000s of years.
 
For instance, there is a documented cure for diabetes. So. American tribal medicine people have been curing it for years with a mixture of plants and it only takes 1 week to do it. Why aren't they using it here? Because they make billions off of treating the disease. The drug companies and researchers let people suffer and rot from disease so that they can make more money.
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What cure would that be, and what is its mechanism?


The people that used those remedies have done so for 10s of thousands of years and after all of that time, you don't use what doesn't work.
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Only because they didn't know any better. Many plants do have medicinal value, but many others in common usage do not. Accurate knowledge of physiology is relatively recent.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that just because something has been around for a long time that it's desirable or effective. Snake-oil salesmen have been around for just as long. If these remedies that have been used for tens of thousands of years are all so effective, then why do they consistently fail to show greater healing effects in controlled testing than a placebo?

The misunderstanding comes from the fact that generally, the alternative remedies do not cause any (or in some cases, as much) harm as conventional treatments in and of themselves. (Take, for example, Chemotherapy or intrusive surgery). The problem arises when people fail to seek treatment for serious conditions that can actually cure them in favor of pursuing false hopes in dubious "alternative" medicine.

I admit there are things about modern medicine that people find disagreeable. There is also the fact that we don't pretend to be able to always cure diseases for which there is no very effective cure. You're right, people need hope. And that's understandable. But if there really is no hope, can you sell it to them with a clear conscience?

And the high cost of modern medicine is the obvious issue. It's true, there *are* greedy people who are not looking out for the best interests of the public. But that's the case anywhere. Surely you would have to agree that there are many people like this involved in alternative medicine as well?

To generalize and say that we're all only out to rob people and keep them suffering is ridiculous and, quite frankly, extremely insulting.
 
Man seems to have come a long way without modern medical research and practices. The diabetes cure was done on a television documentary about the disappearing medicines in the so. American jungles and the loss of the knowledge that isn't being passed down for future generations. It showed the feet of the elderly diabetic woman whose blood sugar was over 500 or some other astronomical figure and her feet were looking bad and modern doctors told her that she'd lose them and have to use insulin the rest of her life. Within a week of finishing the oral treatment of 7 days that was made up by the medicine person, her feet looked much better and her blood sugar was normal and stayed there. Long term follow up showed a healthy woman with both her feet and normal blood sugar levels. No further treatment was needed. Just can't remember if it was on one of the discovery channels or some other channel.

But if there really is no hope, can you sell it to them with a clear conscience?
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That wouldn't be the way, no. If death is for sure, help the family to cope with the inevitable and teach them to care for their loved ones in a loving manner. How the family is involved in the illness and eventual death is very important. The ill loved one needs to know that they are loved and that their family truly cares for them. It helps them to cope and be more comfortable in the situation instead of fearing the passing or feeling completely alone during this time. Assist the dying to accept their fate as a natural process of life and to prepare the way for their crossing over spiritually, because at no other time in our lives, are we closer to being spiritual beings than when we are preparing for our own deaths.

It's true, there *are* greedy people who are not looking out for the best interests of the public. But that's the case anywhere. Surely you would have to agree that there are many people like this involved in alternative medicine as well?
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It doesn't matter how wide spread greed is, it isn't ethical and it isn't acceptable to me and shouldn't be acceptable to anyone else. They get away with what we allow them to get away with. Those are your modern snake oil merchants. Same as when they pulled their wagons down the street selling their 1.00 a bottle miracle cures.

The indigenous medicine people are far from being a fake and don't ask one thing for their services. They had/have a gift and use it for the benefit of the people. Not for the benefit of their pockets or stature.

Your snake oil salesmen showed up much later from other lands and it seems, they are getting much better at what they do. Which is convincing people that theirs is the only way and their price is the cheapest they can sell it to you for.
 
The diabetes cure was done on a television documentary about the disappearing medicines in the so. American jungles and the loss of the knowledge that isn't being passed down for future generations.
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I'm having a very hard time believing that given what is known about diabetes. You said it was documented rather than being an anecdote on television. Can you find some sort of citation for it?


It doesn't matter how wide spread greed is, it isn't ethical and it isn't acceptable to me and shouldn't be acceptable to anyone else. They get away with what we allow them to get away with. Those are your modern snake oil merchants. Same as when they pulled their wagons down the street selling their 1.00 a bottle miracle cures.
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You're right, it's not ethical or acceptable.

Clearly we're talking about the same people, but you're implyng they are medical scientists, a statement which I do not agree with.
 
Bodyhammer, I don't have a "contempt for medical science" ,my contempt is for the many doctors and the medical establishment who are far from being scienific in their methods. There is a long tradition of this . There was a doctor in 1900 who grew molds and treated patients with it .He had discovered antibiotics.He said in his diary that he didn't tell anyone least he be ridiculed.Twenty years later another doctor discovered the same thing .He did make it public and the establishment said he was a crazy quack. The man's name was Fleming ,credited with discovering penicillin. But it took another 20 years for it to be accepted.That's only one of many, many cases of the medical "profession" holding back medical science.Been there , done that, and as a scientist myself strongly object to 'uncientific' medicine.
 
I believe that we have already established that the money guys are unethical, so can you really trust the findings that are being published by the people who are trying to sell you their goods?

Scientists get bought all the time and in many instances their projects get shelved if they are starting to show results that aren't what the money people want to see. Scientists knuckle under to the grant people, or they can lose their funding and jobs, as well as their credibility in the scientific community. Besides, if the natural medicines work, what need is there for the scientists? Like anybody else, they cover their ars' and play the money game.

They also have a habit of dismissing things that they can't explain. GOD is a fine example of that. Another thing about scientists is that they use theory as truth. Even an educated guess is still a guess and since when is a guess, truth?

They continually build or invent or find other ways to poison the Earth. If they truly understood the Earth, they certainly would understand the end results of their actions. Don't ya think? And if they understand the end results of their actions and continue to add to the problem, just how ethical can they really be? And if they don't see the long term effects of their actions, just how smart can they really be? I mean, what kind of moron invents something and creates such toxic substances doing so, that they have to wear sealed suits with full respirators so they don't die?

As far as the indigenous medicine people not knowing any better and that's why they kept using the plants that don't work and did so for 1000s of years, that's pure bull. When you've learned a tenth of what they know about the Earth and what secrets she holds, you wouldn't have learned enough to ask the questions that you'd need to ask in order to find the truth. In other words, if you are relying entirely on western knowledge of the indigenous peoples uses of the plants to do the testing, you're handicapped from the very beginning.

Because of our different beliefs and experiences, you and I will never come to terms over this and in my opinion, continued debate is pretty much useless.
 
Bodyhammer, I don't have a "contempt for medical science" ,my contempt is for the many doctors and the medical establishment who are far from being scienific in their methods.
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You seemed to be wording your post in such a way as to make one believe that you do. I'm glad that interpretation is not correct.


Because of our different beliefs and experiences, you and I will never come to terms over this and in my opinion, continued debate is pretty much useless.
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You're right. We agree on some of it, but you're still making a lot of gross overgeneralizations based on the work of a handful of scientists. Doesn't matter, though. I would prefer to keep this friendly.

I am curious, though, about this diabetes cure you mentioned. Can you try to find more details on that for me?
 
You might be interested in this - the doctor who developed insulin stated in 1929 that in thelast ten years (1919-1929) there has been a marked increase in diabetes which parallels the increase in the use of refined white sugar...doctors today apparently have never heard this comment.
 
I was just reading somewhere that Indian doctors on the subcontinent had filed a report on the satisfactory use of honey on burns .... My question, given that raw honey is specified, is whether normal supermarket bought honey will do. The raw stuff retails at A$23 a small jar, and the normal stuff is about A$6 for the same amount.

A thought in response to the question on packing honey. This is partly prompted by the discussion of fire straws in the thread on lighters and partly from a personal purchase. Honey can be carried in drinking straws with the ends melted shut. I've bought honey straws and they are great for space saving and neatness of use. You can cut your straw down to size for a single serving volume. Perhaps a practical method would be just to suck it almost all the way up, then pinch the top end you sucked and melt it with hot pliers, squeeze out a bit from the bottom and then melt that end. I've never made a honey straw, though, so it may be harder than I think.

A final note: there is material on the net about the incidence of allergies to bee products, including anaphylaxis, and also material on the overstatement of their properties. See eg quackwatch. Read around and decide if this is a concern for you.
 
I just have one comment to make regarding this post. First I do keep a small amount of honey in my survival gear which is used and replaced on a weekly basis. I am most interested, though, in the diabetes info. I was diagnosed with Type II diabetes 3 years ago. As of yesterday I am no longer taking my Glucophage per Doctor's orders. In a month we will find out if it is truly gone or not. I have looked on the web for many supposed type II diabetes cures. However all of them, (that I have seen), require you taking their pills for the next few years. I would be very interested in knowing a cure for it.
 
You're right, the pollen content of honey may present a risk that isn't justified when honey and granulated sugar both work just as well, because the effect of honey on microbes is entirely due to the sugar it contains.

Sugar has antimicrobial properties because it kills microbes through osmotic shock, by drawing water out of them that they need to survive. (Water follows solutes). Human cells are not subject to osmotic shock from sugar, making it an ideal wound treatment.

The only real medical advantage of honey over granulated sugar is that it's viscous so can be applied to superficial or deep wounds with ease, whereas gravity makes bandaging with granulated sugar more difficult.

The commercially available (and easily made) Sugardyne is probably even better, as it's a mixture of granulated sugar and betadine and contains no pollen.
 
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