Do you have a Becker System (of knives)?

[dresnor]

You just touched upon the best way to gauge how much of a system you need Lawrence. How you are getting into the woods. You also might consider some of the ways I determine what I need during an adventure.

#1 Will I be hiking in or driving in? If I am hiking in, how long of a hike is it? Of course the shorter the hike the more toys I should be able to bring. If I am driving my Jeep in, there might not be room for the dog with all the toys.

#2 Will I be spending more time hiking or camping? I spent about a week in the woods hiking a section of the Appalachian trail. Lots of big mile days and only camping to rest my bones and eat supper. No campfire or Bushcrafting. Just finding a place to lay down for the night and pass out. During that trip the knife I carried was a Buck Whittaker transport. I was trying to keep my pack weight low and I honestly didn't need a large knife.

Now if I am camping more than hiking. Say, hiking in a short distance and spending a few days at one location I would bring more tools including a larger knife. It is easier to set up camp to be more like home with the right tools.

#3 The more things I have to make, the more tools I will need. During that long backpacking trip mentioned above, I had my shelter, water purification and food all within that pack. When I rested for the night I didn't need to create anything lessening the need for tools.

Sometimes I get a little nuts and make a shelter to sleep in, gather a ton of firewood for the fire and fish for food. This would be enough of a reason for me to carry more and larger tools.

#4 Weather. If the weather is nice and dry, warm and nothing bad incoming I don't mind traveling light on a day hike. Maybe just bring my BK-14 or BK-16. That way if I get stuck on an unplanned overnight I have a tool that will help me make stuff to regulate my core body temperature.

In the winter I am lot more cautious. More and easier fire making gear, simple shelter items, and reliable tools that can do a lot of work fast. Big knife, saw, stuff like that. If I need a quick way to keep myself or my loved ones out of the elements and warm I don't mind packing the weight. For me this is a safe or sorry time.

#5 I'll be honest with you, I own a lot of Becker knives. I have my favorites and some don't see as much or any action. So on some afternoon trips in the woods I grab whatever hasn't been out in a while. BK-7 and a Patrol Machete? Makes sense, why not?

I hope this helps. Please stick around. I enjoy reading your thought provoking posts.

Jeremy

 

[Lawrence Helm]

You just touched upon the best way to gauge how much of a system you need Lawrence. How you are getting into the woods. You also might consider some of the ways I determine what I need during an adventure.

#1 Will I be hiking in or driving in? If I am hiking in, how long of a hike is it? Of course the shorter the hike the more toys I should be able to bring. If I am driving my Jeep in, there might not be room for the dog with all the toys.

#2 Will I be spending more time hiking or camping? I spent about a week in the woods hiking a section of the Appalachian trail. Lots of big mile days and only camping to rest my bones and eat supper. No campfire or Bushcrafting. Just finding a place to lay down for the night and pass out. During that trip the knife I carried was a Buck Whittaker transport. I was trying to keep my pack weight low and I honestly didn't need a large knife.

Now if I am camping more than hiking. Say, hiking in a short distance and spending a few days at one location I would bring more tools including a larger knife. It is easier to set up camp to be more like home with the right tools.

#3 The more things I have to make, the more tools I will need. During that long backpacking trip mentioned above, I had my shelter, water purification and food all within that pack. When I rested for the night I didn't need to create anything lessening the need for tools.

Sometimes I get a little nuts and make a shelter to sleep in, gather a ton of firewood for the fire and fish for food. This would be enough of a reason for me to carry more and larger tools.

#4 Weather. If the weather is nice and dry, warm and nothing bad incoming I don't mind traveling light on a day hike. Maybe just bring my BK-14 or BK-16. That way if I get stuck on an unplanned overnight I have a tool that will help me make stuff to regulate my core body temperature.

In the winter I am lot more cautious. More and easier fire making gear, simple shelter items, and reliable tools that can do a lot of work fast. Big knife, saw, stuff like that. If I need a quick way to keep myself or my loved ones out of the elements and warm I don't mind packing the weight. For me this is a safe or sorry time.

#5 I'll be honest with you, I own a lot of Becker knives. I have my favorites and some don't see as much or any action. So on some afternoon trips in the woods I grab whatever hasn't been out in a while. BK-7 and a Patrol Machete? Makes sense, why not?

I hope this helps. Please stick around. I enjoy reading your thought provoking posts.

Jeremy

Dresnor,

Interesting post! Since I will be 80 in October your "please stick around" has at least a couple of meanings. :concern:

But first, in regard to your 5 scenarios it is probably only number 5 that applies to me nowadays. Before I retired back in 1998 I had to go through a process of negotiation with my wife. I wanted to retire to Northern Arizona, get another German Shorthaired Pointer and do a lot of bird hunting. Susan, however, had father and stepmother living in Indio and didn't want to leave the area until after they died. She made a deal with me. She would find a house in a location I would like and it would be within easy driving distance to Indio. Then after they died, she would move any place I liked. Without going into too much detail we settled upon a new house in San Jacinto. It had an excellent place to let the dogs run off leash: in a dry river bed about two miles away. Also, it was within half-an hour's drive from all sorts of trails in the San Jacinto mountains. With the dogs I had at the time we tried some of the other San Jacinto mountain trails but for various reasons we go nowadays almost exclusively to the river. The biggest reason is that because of Susan's illnesses I don't want to get too far away. And I like hiking at the river. You can see what its like at my photographic site: www.lawrencehelm.smugmug.com I am not suffering by being restricted to hiking at the river. But you can see that I am not likely to be doing any of your other scenarios.

As to sticking around, I've given that some thought. I am enjoying it here. One person suggested I might be in a big hurry to become a BH, but I don't know about that. I'm not very reliable in regard to sticking around on forums. I seem to be interested in too many subjects. For example, back in 2012 I think, I decided to study the American Civil War. I had never studied it as thoroughly as I thought it deserved; so I spent a year or so reading one book after another. I discussed a lot of debatable subjects on the Historum Warfare forum. Some of these discussions were heated, not about the Civil War issues that were contentious at the time of the Civil War, but about whether a particular general (it didn't make any difference whether he fought for the north or the south) was as good (or bad) as some historians thought he was. I probably read more than 100 books but eventually I burned out and quit discussing things on Historum. Then recently I picked up one of the books I hadn't read. It was written by a distant relative of General John Bell Hood. He examined some of the arguments made by modern historians critical of General Hood and refutes them fairly convincingly. I posted a note discussing one of those arguments siding with the author; I had held a favorable view of Hood when I was active; so my note could have resulted in a resumption of an earlier discussion, but I got no response. I checked to see which people were still active and none of the people I had been discussing things with had posted in ages. No doubt partly because of that I still haven't finished that book.

Which is to say that I don't have a very good track record in regard to sticking on forums.

Lawrence

 

[Guyon]

You just touched upon the best way to gauge how much of a system you need Lawrence. How you are getting into the woods. You also might consider some of the ways I determine what I need during an adventure.

#1 Will I be hiking in or driving in? If I am hiking in, how long of a hike is it? Of course the shorter the hike the more toys I should be able to bring. If I am driving my Jeep in, there might not be room for the dog with all the toys.

#2 Will I be spending more time hiking or camping? I spent about a week in the woods hiking a section of the Appalachian trail. Lots of big mile days and only camping to rest my bones and eat supper. No campfire or Bushcrafting. Just finding a place to lay down for the night and pass out. During that trip the knife I carried was a Buck Whittaker transport. I was trying to keep my pack weight low and I honestly didn't need a large knife.

Now if I am camping more than hiking. Say, hiking in a short distance and spending a few days at one location I would bring more tools including a larger knife. It is easier to set up camp to be more like home with the right tools.

#3 The more things I have to make, the more tools I will need. During that long backpacking trip mentioned above, I had my shelter, water purification and food all within that pack. When I rested for the night I didn't need to create anything lessening the need for tools.

Sometimes I get a little nuts and make a shelter to sleep in, gather a ton of firewood for the fire and fish for food. This would be enough of a reason for me to carry more and larger tools.

#4 Weather. If the weather is nice and dry, warm and nothing bad incoming I don't mind traveling light on a day hike. Maybe just bring my BK-14 or BK-16. That way if I get stuck on an unplanned overnight I have a tool that will help me make stuff to regulate my core body temperature.

In the winter I am lot more cautious. More and easier fire making gear, simple shelter items, and reliable tools that can do a lot of work fast. Big knife, saw, stuff like that. If I need a quick way to keep myself or my loved ones out of the elements and warm I don't mind packing the weight. For me this is a safe or sorry time.

#5 I'll be honest with you, I own a lot of Becker knives. I have my favorites and some don't see as much or any action. So on some afternoon trips in the woods I grab whatever hasn't been out in a while. BK-7 and a Patrol Machete? Makes sense, why not?

I hope this helps. Please stick around. I enjoy reading your thought provoking posts.

Jeremy

Dresnor,

Interesting post! Since I will be 80 in October your "please stick around" has at least a couple of meanings. :concern:

But first, in regard to your 5 scenarios it is probably only number 5 that applies to me nowadays. Before I retired back in 1998 I had to go through a process of negotiation with my wife. I wanted to retire to Northern Arizona, get another German Shorthaired Pointer and do a lot of bird hunting. Susan, however, had father and stepmother living in Indio and didn't want to leave the area until after they died. She made a deal with me. She would find a house in a location I would like and it would be within easy driving distance to Indio. Then after they died, she would move any place I liked. Without going into too much detail we settled upon a new house in San Jacinto. It had an excellent place to let the dogs run off leash: in a dry river bed about two miles away. Also, it was within half-an hour's drive from all sorts of trails in the San Jacinto mountains. With the dogs I had at the time we tried some of the other San Jacinto mountain trails but for various reasons we go nowadays almost exclusively to the river. The biggest reason is that because of Susan's illnesses I don't want to get too far away. And I like hiking at the river. You can see what its like at my photographic site: www.lawrencehelm.smugmug.com I am not suffering by being restricted to hiking at the river. But you can see that I am not likely to be doing any of your other scenarios.

As to sticking around, I've given that some thought. I am enjoying it here. One person suggested I might be in a big hurry to become a BH, but I don't know about that. I'm not very reliable in regard to sticking around on forums. I seem to be interested in too many subjects. For example, back in 2012 I think, I decided to study the American Civil War. I had never studied it as thoroughly as I thought it deserved; so I spent a year or so reading one book after another. I discussed a lot of debatable subjects on the Historum Warfare forum. Some of these discussions were heated, not about the Civil War issues that were contentious at the time of the Civil War, but about whether a particular general (it didn't make any difference whether he fought for the north or the south) was as good (or bad) as some historians thought he was. I probably read more than 100 books but eventually I burned out and quit discussing things on Historum. Then recently I picked up one of the books I hadn't read. It was written by a distant relative of General John Bell Hood. He examined some of the arguments made by modern historians critical of General Hood and refutes them fairly convincingly. I posted a note discussing one of those arguments siding with the author; I had held a favorable view of Hood when I was active; so my note could have resulted in a resumption of an earlier discussion, but I got no response. I checked to see which people were still active and none of the people I had been discussing things with had posted in ages. No doubt partly because of that I still haven't finished that book.

Which is to say that I don't have a very good track record in regard to sticking on forums.

Lawrence

You guys are the anti-USN. I love it.

 

[Lawrence Helm]

You guys are the anti-USN. I love it.

Well, yeah. Neither of us is assuming any outings on lakes, rivers or oceans. It wasn't always like that for me. When my kids were growing up we spent half the year hiking and the other half at the ocean. I was a free diver; so while my kids were playing about in tide pools I would be out spearing fish. I also got a West Wight Potter and later on a Catalina 22, but when my wife became ill I gave up the ocean, got a Rhodesian Ridgeback (for guarding Susan when I was at work and hiking with me when I wasn't) and didn't object when we moved to San Jacinto. And San Jacinto is even drier than usual nowadays.

In my diving days I wore a knife on my ankle or simply tied one to my float (a float with a gunny sack tied to it to hold the fish I speared). Then if it was convenient I'd clean them on a rock out-cropping before heading back to where the kids were or to my car if I was by myself. None of those knives kept a very good edge as I recall.

But hey. Ethan Becker doesn't make a skin-diving knife I notice.

Lawrence

 

[zzyzzogeton]

That Yellowstone volcano is for real.

Lawrence (and anyone else ), check out the (so-far) 3 book series Supervolcano (SV), by Harry Turtledove, SV:Eruption, SV:All Fall Down, and SV:Things Fall Apart. Turtledove is an "Alternate History" writer - takes real life and changes something, now what happens? Obviously fiction, but he takes care to be as realistic as possible, with some things.

Now when the volcano blows is a good question. The last time was about 640K years ago. The interval has been 600K to 800K years apart, so we're "in the window", although there are no indications that the current level of activity will trigger an event in the relatively near future.

When it does, however, they who have survival tools to use and/or trade for other goods will have an edge. That's when a hoard of multi-use tools, like Becker knives will come in handy. Ash coverage patterns will be determined by the prevailing wind patterns at the time of KABOOM.

Now Turtledove can be way out there as well... like the series where the Earth is invaded by saurian aliens during WW2. Entertaining, but not as likely or as potentially relevant as a geological time bomb in Wyoming. Or when time-traveling Soviet agents go back to the civil war to show the Confederates how to make AK-47s so that the US as the USSR knew it would never come to be.

 

[Murphnuge]

Now Turtledove can be way out there as well... like the series where the Earth is invaded by saurian aliens during WW2. Entertaining, but not as likely or as potentially relevant as a geological time bomb in Wyoming. Or when time-traveling Soviet agents go back to the civil war to show the Confederates how to make AK-47s so that the US as the USSR knew it would never come to be.

I had a roommate that read his stuff a lot. He'd let me borrow the civil war book once. I got about three chapters in and stopped for whatever reason. I never could remember the name, of the writer or the book. I'll have to look it up again, thanks!

 

[neeman]

System?
A system has to be a predicatable method, so like a mathamatical line it needs three points
So if you do not have three Beckers you do not have a system!

I started with the #16, knocked the TOPS BOB out of usage
A superb middle sized field knife.
With a medium covered, I need a larger chopper and splitter
I inquired here and you guys gave me the nod for the #4, which is now somewhere flying over the Atlantic....

So here comes the system, the Goldilocks syndrome, the Mama #16, the Papa #4, and all I need is the Baby one.
D2 about 3" what an EDC, so little Baby #24 with scales is on order.

Now the #10, I will have to try and establish a new system to get it to fit in..............
And of course #9 is mathamaticalically before #10

 

[tradewater]

I think Nessmuk had a pretty good idea with the three tool system. It worked quite well for him and still works today when you tailor it to suit your specific needs. A chopper, utility blade and a compact knife make a capable system that will get you around in good order. I almost always use a three tool system of some sort (although the chopper gets replaced with a saw on many occasions). In the Becker line you have multiple options to suit your tastes. For example, you could go with a BK9, BK4, (or wait for the RBK to come out), any of the tweeners for your utility blade and a BK11, 14 or 24 as a good nimble neck knife.

I think you would enjoy the BK4 for the chopper. Wonderful tool that one, and fun to discover all it's capabilities. At any rate there are as many choices for a system within the Becker family as there are specific needs. With the added benefit of not breaking the bank while you try out all the possibilities. Welcome to the ride Lawrence and keep us posted on your thoughts.

 

[22-rimfire]

A bag'll work too.

I have to say that's classic. It looks like my overfilled work bag that I keep in my truck. It's got a little of everything in it including knives.

The Becker System.... I suppose one could view them as a system. I started with a BK-2 due to the reviews. I bought an ESEE 4 for the same reason. My first thought after my pupils undilated upon holding the BK-2 was WHAT A TANK! I like it, but I just can't get past the tank part as the strength is not needed for what I do. Still have it of couse. Remember my interests are not only with Becker knives.... but the fact is that I have seemed to find what works for me and I stay within reasonable limits of those boundaries

I am a big fan of Bob Dozier's knives. When I attend Blade, I immediately head for his booth/tables. I do not stop at go or smell the roses first. Bob's knives are in fact the dominant competition for the Beckers in terms of using for me. I also discovered the Blackjack knives and really like them. They are made by Bark River for Blackjack (A-2 steel), and I am a big fan of the model 125. More competition for Ethan's knives.... I like a classic looking and feeling knife and the Randall design is about as classic as you can get as far as I'm concerned. Yes, I have Randalls too.

My preferences were already established by the time I purchased the BK-2. The Blackjack Classic 125 appeared at about the same time as the BK-2. It is more of a size that I am comfortable with.

I purchased the BK-16 next and have been quite pleased with it.

I certainly have thought about acquiring more Becker blades. Last year, during the manufacturer's days at SMKW (Sevierville TN), I made a special trip to attend. I wanted to look at and handle Beckers! Ethan was there and we visited quite a bit. I purchased the BK-7, BK-14, and BK-24 that day and handled just about everything else. Yes, I have handled the BK-9 time and time again and can't bring myself to buying one. I know I will simply not carry it in the woods ever when I have my other knives available to me.

The BK-7 was the "large knife" in my Becker system. I felt that it was a toss up as to whether I would use it. Still a toss up. I like the BK-24 and the BK-14 pretty much stays in the box.

I handled the BK-5 and the BK-15. The BK-5 has a longer blade than I am comfortable with. Picked up the BK-15 and I love this one just about as much as the BK-16. I like the blade shape of the BK-15 a lot and tend to be very comfortable using this shape. I guess it goes back to my kitchen knives and their common usage. The BK-15 is just comfortable to me. Honestly, I have been carrying it over the BK-16 of late. But I have one problem, I have a Dozier Pro Guides knife and love the thing.... it is approximately the same shape as the BK-15 with a bit more heft and very solid feeling in the hand. So, the BK-15 will continue to be a work in progress as I use it from time to time. My hands are not huge and the BK-15/BK-16/BK-17 handles are very comfortable to me and this size allows me to have a lot of dexterity using the knife.

BK-9, BK-9, BK-9..... well, I have a couple Condor short machetes that I use for chopping.

What's next? I suspect it will be a BK-10 as I like the size of the BK-2 but not the heft.

So, why have all these Beckers made their way into my knife accumulation? The Becker knifes fit my hands and they are very cost effective. They are pretty easy to sharpen and I don't get all worried that I might booger one up a little when I am shapening or using it. I am comfortable with the steel even though it was only a couple years ago that I made the comment on one of the forums that all the Beckers are made from "machete steel".... but so are the ESEE's for the most part. I have gotten past the "machete steel" thing and find the knives very functional.

If you like knives and I certainly do, it is very easy to keep buying Beckers. Who knows? I'll eventually probably even buy a BK-9. I am presently enamored with the BK-15 and BK-16. There is a Becker for just about any purpose you need a fixed blade for.

 

[Lawrence Helm]

That Yellowstone volcano is for real.

Lawrence (and anyone else ), check out the (so-far) 3 book series Supervolcano (SV), by Harry Turtledove, SV:Eruption, SV:All Fall Down, and SV:Things Fall Apart. Turtledove is an "Alternate History" writer - takes real life and changes something, now what happens? Obviously fiction, but he takes care to be as realistic as possible, with some things.

Now when the volcano blows is a good question. The last time was about 640K years ago. The interval has been 600K to 800K years apart, so we're "in the window", although there are no indications that the current level of activity will trigger an event in the relatively near future.

When it does, however, they who have survival tools to use and/or trade for other goods will have an edge. That's when a hoard of multi-use tools, like Becker knives will come in handy. Ash coverage patterns will be determined by the prevailing wind patterns at the time of KABOOM.

Now Turtledove can be way out there as well... like the series where the Earth is invaded by saurian aliens during WW2. Entertaining, but not as likely or as potentially relevant as a geological time bomb in Wyoming. Or when time-traveling Soviet agents go back to the civil war to show the Confederates how to make AK-47s so that the US as the USSR knew it would never come to be.

I'll check out the Turtledove novels, thanks. While I don't claim to have studied the subject, just watched a few movies over the years, I've noticed what seems to me to be a shift. I was in a theater years ago in 1951 when I first saw THE THING. The little isolated group lets the frozen THING defrost and they battle it They never give up, trying one thing after another until they kill it. They defeated it but others need to be warned so the movie ends with the warning "watch the skies. Watch the skies." In a later remake with Kurt Russell the small group doesn't band together very well and they do not win and the human race is not warned. I can't recall whether THE THING survives and goes off to kill the rest of mankind. I've seen more than one movie in recent years that suggests that we can't trust one another. If we band together we will eventually turn on each other; so you'd better keep your BK2 handy because you're going to be on your own. You can't count on defending a cache of knives or guns; so take your BK2 and head off into the woods. The human race won't survive but you'll survive longer than a lot of them.

That isn't a very cheerful picture and I don't believe it. Our anthropological history teaches us that probably the key advantage we had over the other animals (and other human-like species, most notably the Neanderthals) was that we banded together more effectively than they did. Then as time went on tribes competed for hunting grounds and the best bands, the ones able to best work and fight together defeated lesser bands. There was an evolutionary advantage in being in a better band. However independent and isolated you feel you will have a better chance of surviving in an armageddon-type scenario if you band together with your neighbors. The guy who won't band but tries to independently protect his cache of guns and knives isn't going to fair well.

I haven't read the novels you recommend, but the title of the third novel THINGS FALL APART sounds like the chaos a lot of novelists and movie makers are predicting, but that simply doesn't make sense given our anthropological history. Jeff Goldblum's character in Jurassic Park predicts that nature will always find a way. And the human species as the highest achievement of nature will find a way to defeat aliens and chaotic threats. We won't degenerate into behavior that never existed in our anthropological past. We will band together. It is in our genes.

So why all the negative novels and movies? I think there is a conflict between us banding together to find a way and a humongous impersonal state telling us which way is best for us. I don't think our Western Liberal Democracy is that bad, but in the last century we suffered two world wars and got a taste of what Nationally-controlled Socialism can do. That was the name Hitler chose, but Stalin's approach amounted to something very similar: A dictatorship that imposed a controlled socialism. Here in the West in modern times we don't have that but we fear it. Some might think it is inevitable and if it comes all we can do is take our BK2s and run off into the woods. I personally don't think its coming. Just as Liberal Democracy managed to defeat both the Nazis and the Communists -- without putting too fine a point on it, so we will continue to thrive. Nature and Liberal Democracy will find a way. To put it in other terms Liberal Democracy is a middle ground between the Capitalism that Marx feared and the Chaos that others are predicting.

So collect your Becker knives -- collect some guns as well, but be prepared to share when the Armageddon-scenario event really does occur. You'll find that you get along with your neighbors a lot better than you thought you would and your chance of survival will increase tremendously.

IMHO

Lawrence