Do You Have A Cut-Off Point In Blade Steels?

CL01

CL01

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Apr 19, 2007
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I fully understand that us knife nuts are going to want better blade steels &, usually do. That's why we spend the $ we do on nicer knives. Most of us don't really want or use say, 440A or AUS-6 or below steels, etc.

Do you have a cut-off as to what blade steel you'll use & what's enough?

My point here is that while we probably all like the longer edge holding of, say, ZDP-189, SG2, etc, what's our minimum & really acceptable for a decent folder?

I've had knives with ZDP-189, SG2, M4, M390, etc. While I've liked the edge holding of these steels, there's not as many different types of knives with these steel. Lately, I've been finding myself using knives with ATS-34, 154CM, S30V, etc steels & am fine with them. Their edge holding is acceptable & I can get these knives plenty sharp within a reasonable time (Not that sharpening higher RC steels is that bad, just that the aforementioned steels are easier to sharpen).

Recently, I've really been impressed with the Hogue/Elishewitz EX01 folders (I have a 3.5" & 4" version). They use 154CM steel. While it's a perfectly acceptable steel, it's not a "super" steel & seems to have fallen out of favor, partially due to CPM 154. This got me thinking about what steel type is enough.

FWIW, these days I seem to be fine with ATS-34/154CM steel or so. I do have & use knives in other steels, but don't feel like I have inferior steel when I use the ones listed.

Any thoughts on this & what's enough?
 
CL01 said:
I fully understand that us knife nuts are going to want better blade steels &, usually do. That's why we spend the $ we do on nicer knives. Most of us don't really want or use say, 440A or AUS-6 or below steels, etc.

Do you have a cut-off as to what blade steel you'll use & what's enough?

My point here is that while we probably all like the longer edge holding of, say, ZDP-189, SG2, etc, what's our minimum & really acceptable for a decent folder?

I've had knives with ZDP-189, SG2, M4, M390, etc. While I've liked the edge holding of these steels, there's not as many different types of knives with these steel. Lately, I've been finding myself using knives with ATS-34, 154CM, S30V, etc steels & am fine with them. Their edge holding is acceptable & I can get these knives plenty sharp within a reasonable time (Not that sharpening higher RC steels is that bad, just that the aforementioned steels are easier to sharpen).

Recently, I've really been impressed with the Hogue/Elishewitz EX01 folders (I have a 3.5" & 4" version). They use 154CM steel. While it's a perfectly acceptable steel, it's not a "super" steel & seems to have fallen out of favor, partially due to CPM 154. This got me thinking about what steel type is enough.

FWIW, these days I seem to be fine with ATS-34/154CM steel or so. I do have & use knives in other steels, but don't feel like I have inferior steel when I use the ones listed.

Any thoughts on this & what's enough?
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it's weird how i see these two thrown together, so often. i'm carrying one of each, right now, and they perform so differently (for me).

i'll give anything a whirl. i pretty much judge the knife, by the knife. anythingelse is "Steelism" (remember where ya heard it first). the biggest surprise i ever had was a United Cutlery Ninjato that i cut the webbing handle off of, sanded the black coating off of, and made scales for. it's mystery stainless from China. an 18" blade that retails for 20bux, i'm guessin it's not the best steel. that sword has smashed into God only knows how many hard targets and cleared tons of brush. never fractured, chipped, or even dulled.

when i'm shellin out good money, i expect good steel, but i'll give any knife it's day in court even if i've seen knives with the same steel perform poorly elsewhere because that incident could've been related to the HT.
 
Hmmmm...do I detect another case of 'super steel burnout'? :D

I do hear what you are saying and despite the fact that there is a Carpenter CTS-XHP equipped Manix 2 in my pocket and I just bought an M390, 710-1 Benchmade, I have lately found myself topping out at the S30V level or earlier. Some of my favorites are 440C, 420HC, AUS8 and VG-1 as they give me a fine edge with minimal effort to keep sharp. I am not so interested in infinite edge holding as I am in the ability of the steel to meet my needs.

I am always going to be a sucker for the new girl on the block, but I will always appreciate the beauty of the girl next door. ;)
 
I won't go lower than AUS8.

However, steel performance also depends on a proper HT and good edge geometry.
 
Tough call. I like 1095 and I know it's not a super steel. I probably wouldn't go much lower than 440C in a stainless.
 
I prefer not to go below S30V.

To be honest, I'm not sure it'll ever be "enough". Metallurgy is a science that is constantly in development. New steels are released about as often as there are new computer processors. A good experiment would be to buy knives with blade steels that excels in one category at the expense of all others(A2 for toughness, 10V for wear resistance, H1 for stain resistance, ZDP-189 for hardness) to see which one best suits your needs.

It would be interesting if Spyderco would make full production runs of their Mule Teams in all steels for that purpose. A standardized blade format would give a very accurate comparison of one steel against another:thumbup:.
 
I don´t agree to that "super steel" thing. All those steel grades may excel in cutting soft to medium hard medias forever. Thats ok. All they have a low toughness, that makes them second choice for me considering a edc knife.

To me the perfect steel grade must be ballanced between edge holding and toughness.

That is one part. The other part is, it depends not only on the steel grade itself. If the steel is heat treated out of its best performance range, to soft, that is a knock out for me too and vice versa if it is treated to its best performance that is a big big plus.

Example:

I have read about a blade made from german 1.4034, that is a 420 with .5% carbon content, hardness tested at HRC 58.

That catches my eyes!

It hints, the manufacturer may have thought about the tasks and the steel properties that fit to them and has tried to get the max out of the material.

The knife was a Boker Speedlock. I am simply not sure, if the result was consistent and am sure, that i dislike the knifes design.
 
I "tend" not to go lower than Aus8 or 8Cr13MoV. However, my general rule of thumb is that if a company actually tells you what the steel is then they are honest enough to consider buying from. Even the lower quality steels would be OK as a beater.

When something is advertised as "400 series" steel or "surgical" steel, I know they're being dishonest, don't have pride in their product and I won't buy from them.
 
I refuse to buy anything other than the top three steels. Everything else is just junk.
 
All else being equal (good HT, blade geometry, etc.), my cutoff is typically AUS-8 or 8Cr13Mov for stainless steels.

Buck's 420HC would be one exception to this because of their exceptional heat treat. Same goes for whatever Victorinox uses.
 
Guyon said:
I refuse to buy anything other than the top three steels. Everything else is just junk.
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What exactly are the top three steels supposed to be?

Anyway, I don't have a "cut-off" point or anything, but I generally try to look at knives in S30V or better. I don't have a problem buying a knife in any variety of 440 if I think the rest of it is good, but as far as steel the only knives it's ever made me turn my nose up at were some $10 fairs made of 420 at the fair.

I don't really see the point of excluding one steel if the rest of the knife that it's being used on is good--good meaning you like it. I mean, in the real big picture of things the quality of the steels in general are probably better than steel used for a lot of applications in today's world. When you start looking at applications of it for the knife world then it just becomes a matter of the user maintenancing the steel properly. You have to sharpen some steels more, just as you have to protect some steels from rust. At the end of the day heat treatment still winds up playing a bigger role in how a knife holds and edge and everything than what steel was used anyway. So I mainly just look for what I see as quality, try to purchase from reputable brands, and if not just figure out how to make it work.
 
For stainless steels, I have limits on both ends. AUS8 is as far as I go on the less expensive end and S30V is my limit on the other. I likethe AUS8 in some of Ka-Bar's Dozier designed folders. They're a great price, practically indestructible, and AUS8 sharpens back up very quickly. I think they're excellent for a toolbox, a car console, etc.

OTOH, my first choice for a folder stainless steel is S30V. I have better results in usage and resharpening from that steel than any other stainless that I've used. I'm not really interested in any SS with higher edge holding than S30V if it adds to my resharpening time / effort / equipment. I do have a couple of D4s and Caly 3s in ZDP189 that get used because all my knives are users, but now that I've tried that steel, I've avoided buying any other knife with ZDP189, S90V, etc.

Lately, Ive been sticking to S30V, D2, 154CM, and VG10 for everything I buy or trade for. I guess the main point is that they all work very well for me and I know what to expect from them and how to use them.
 
If I had it my way every knife I owned would be 5160 or 1095...but for the most part I will give anything a bash if it can hold an edge and do the job I need it to.
 
I too enjoy super steel knives but I always figured people that buy those exclusively are either collectors or those that never really use a knife.

Example, show me a butcher that uses a knife with any type of super steel and I've show you a rookie butcher. :)

Some cheifs at a mid point in their work life purchase mild super steels to play with.

I find the once a year hunters buy more super stell than any other knife users I've seen so far.

I have one super steel knife that is lashed to a pac I take hunting, but other than using it a hand full of times to learn about teh qualities of the steel or blade design it rarely gets used these days. I'll buy one or two knives in new blade steels, but I've pretty much settled on D2 for a highend everyday knife and 80% of what I use for work and play is 440C or AUS8 with a 420HC thrown in from time to time. I even have a 420J on my short list I want to spend some time with very soon. My ATS34s and up might get used once a year, but most never see daylight.


For EDC it is just simply hard to beat a good heat treat 440C/AUS8 or D2.
 
Guyon said:
Pick three and call them tops. Isn't that kind of the point of this thread? :cool:
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lol, so true. It cracks me up when I see posts where all the steels that someone has used are listed and ranked. Please. Like they have any real way of figuring out which steel is better during their YouTube paper cutting tests.
 
Right Now at this time in the universe I like CPM 154, ZDP-189 and M390 the best in no certain order.

I will say that M390 is the one to watch in the future though, it has all the best qualities as in Easy to sharpen, Awesome Edge Holding, very stainless and tough.
 
My cutoff point is so called "surgical stainless", also known as mystery steel. The only other steels I don't buy are 420j2, aus6 or lower, and Chinese steels lower than 8cr13mov. My favorites are Buck's 420HC and 8cr13mov, because I like sharpening every once in awhile. I have not had to sharpen any of my s30v blades or my elmax blade yet.
 
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