Do you know of a knife better than the trail master?

fmajor007 said:
I'd luv a Trail Master in INFI - not so sure i'd like the price!!!!
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If you're just talking a 10" bladed knife made of INFI they got them. It's called the Battle Mistress. If you're looking for the rubbery handle... the closest thing is a Busse Basic 9. I think every once in a while you can still find one for like $350.00 or something. But from what I hear the Swamp Rat and Scarp Yard knives are pretty nice, decent price, and will still out shine the Cold Steel. I have no idea though as I don't own any Scrap Yard or Swamp Rat knives. I either buy Busse, BRKT, or Custom blades these days. I've seen Cold Steel Trailmasters break right at the guard. I think it has to do with the 90 degree angles they cut into the tang to accomodate the guard. Never seen a Busse break that way.
 
@ kurodrago - that stinks!!! I've seen some pics of this same failure type.

The specific knife i saw was the "new" model SK5 Trailmaster with brass guard - looked just like this one. Evidently the tang "hole" for the guard was machined too big - way outta spec (sorta obvious). In fact, this poor guy had 2 in a row!!! It seems when he made it known to CS they gave him a hard time at first, but they did make it right and to his satisfaction. I don't know if he posts here (jankerson), but he knows his way around knives.

@ Infi-del - Do you have some pics (or point me to 'em) of the broken Trailmaster? I've heard of knives breaking this way before, but have never seen it myself and it would help me be a more-informed Trailmaster user. I'm not a metalurgist and don't understand the "90-degree" angle cutting/grinding thing making that spot more susceptible to failure. I've read other folks discussing it on the forums, but don't understand it really.

I have seen a video of a broken CS Recon Scout - epic fail while batoning some wood (frozen wood, but still, it shouldn't have happened....).

As to an INFI Trailmaster, i'd like to see the exact same knife profile (blade/edge/belly/sweep/point/tip - the whole thing) - EXCEPT a wider tang. Since the 90-degree angle thing can cause epic failure, maybe a deeply radiused "non-angle" to get down to the tang width would solve the break-age problem. I dunno... :confused:

It seems to me that the guard would have to have a specifically shaped "hole" to get a good "fit" to the tang, but thats better than a weak tang - right!?!?

A guy can dream right? :D
 
fmajor007 said:
Infi-del - Do you have some pics (or point me to 'em) of the broken Trailmaster? I've heard of knives breaking this way before, but have never seen it myself and it would help me be a more-informed Trailmaster user. I'm not a metalurgist and don't understand the "90-degree" angle cutting/grinding thing making that spot more susceptible to failure. I've read other folks discussing it on the forums, but don't understand it really.
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The one I saw in person doesn't have pics (We didn't have a camera on us). But there was a thread on it in this very forum I think a long time ago. If you have a 90% angle cut into anything, and then you apply opposing forces to either side, you are going to be focussing all that stress on that very point. When you chop the blade's forward movement is suddenly stopped by the the thing your chopping but your hand motion tends to want to keep moving forward. It'd be the same as putting the knife in a vise, edge up, and then suddenly dropping a massive amount of weight on the top of the handle. All the force is going to center in that little corner. But having a rounded curve there, it's going to distribute the force evenly. Or at least diffuse it. There are 1,000s of Cold Steel Trailmasters out there still going strong and being beaten to death. No one is saying this is going to happen everytime. A lot of it comes down to any defects in that particular knife. Materials and heat treat play a huge role. But it always makes for a strong knife if there are rounded corners as opposed to 90% angles.

I have seen a video of a broken CS Recon Scout - epic fail while batoning some wood (frozen wood, but still, it shouldn't have happened....).
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That may be the other one I'm thinking about. I swear a guy here had a trailmaster break on him though.

As to an INFI Trailmaster, i'd like to see the exact same knife profile (blade/edge/belly/sweep/point/tip - the whole thing) - EXCEPT a wider tang.
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Well Jerry Busse has never really been a big fan of copying someone else's design. Especially cold steel. Busse is one of the few knife companies that keep cold steel from claiming they make the toughest knives on the planet. Simply because Busse's have been tested to death and I believe they may be impossible to destroy with conventional weapons. So I doubt there will ever be a Trailmaster like Busse. But I can promise you if you get ahold of a Busse Battle Mistress of any variation... you'll never look back. Those things are tanks and you just can't killem.


Since the 90-degree angle thing can cause epic failure, maybe a deeply radiused "non-angle" to get down to the tang width would solve the break-age problem. I dunno... :confused:

It seems to me that the guard would have to have a specifically shaped "hole" to get a good "fit" to the tang, but thats better than a weak tang - right!?!?
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It would just need complimentary round throat corners to match the rounds in the tang step down. It's not hard. But on my choppers I like there to be no actual guard, just a hand stop like on some machetes or my Busse Battle Mistress. Guards chew my index finger and the web of my hand up after lots of chopping. Plus I like being able to rest my thumb or index finger on the spine if I need a hair more control for finer cutting. Big blades handle like pigs for small tasks.
 
Yea - thats the Recon Scout i saw w/epic fail. The vid was pretty convincing that that particular blade sucked big-time. Good thing they had dependable, back-up knives. I wonder how many epic failures like this have happened?

Also, i'm pretty certain the Busse Family have absolutely no need nor desire to copy any Cold Steel design - they're doing quite well on their own!!! The Busses seem really great for chopping wood - no peers.

That said, i happen to really like the blade design of the Trail Master, but would like the benefits of Busse's INFI steel. I'm not really interested in a blade that's purpose-designed for chopping - i prefer a ultra-lite saw if i gotta do much cross-cut work.

For big blades, i like a more all-around, general-purpose design. I use a smaller blade for food prep, etc and generally use the big blade for "harder" tasks. A big blade can be suitable for smaller tasks, but ya gotta get used to it.

Case in point. My car is a Land Rover Defender 110 and the steering wheel is on the British side - very weird to get used to. Also, i live in a country with lotsa narrow, steep-hilled, sharp turning streets. Again, very difficult to get used to. However, i'm familiar enough with my car to be able to buzz around in the city pretty well - though it can leave on-coming drivers "unsettled". On mountain roads and such - i'm golden - it's all good. You can used to most anything and learn to use it well if you need to.

But i'll never see a Trailmaster in INFI - no matter how well i think i could use it!!!!

Dreams, they're ours to have, hold and cherish - and logic to the wind.
 
Another vote for the Fallkniven A2

(have there been any votes for the Fallkniven A2?)
 
BryFry said:
Because you can't add more metal to a flat ground blade with sandpaper. :) The grind on a true "fully" convexed blade starts up near the spine and *curves* down to a zero point edge. I don't know how to show illustrations on here, but basically the middle of a full convex blade is thicker than a full flat ground one.

A fully convexed *blade* and a convexed *edge* are two different things. I think you are probably thinking about the process of convexing just the edge of a knife.

-Because if you were to turn a fully flat ground Trailmaster into a truely, fully convexed blade, ... well, technically it IS possible, but by the time you were done (meaning that there is a gradual curve from the very edge of the knife all the way to the spine, with no flat spots) ...you would have removed around a half inch to an inch of overall width from your blade!

:)
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I'd have to check a trailmaster to be sure, but I think you are right. Several makers (including me sometimes, depends on the "weight" of the grind) start a convex grind job with a saber or flat pregrind.


Gossman Knives said:
I have a stag handled Trailmaster with a CarbonV blade. I convexed the edge and it cuts much better. On a flat grind, I prefer the edge to be convexed. Easier to sharpen and maintain the edge by stropping.
Scott
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+10 - seriously. aside from the stropping, you really, really want a convex edge on a chopper. If it wasn't better, axes would come scandi ground.
 
fmajor007 said:
But i'll never see a Trailmaster in INFI - no matter how well i think i could use it!!!!

Dreams, they're ours to have, hold and cherish - and logic to the wind.
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the closest thing to a TM from busse i have come across is the mofo/mojo. The battle mistress line might be great choppers but they are heavy and really forward balanced. Not to mention that hight fat machete point on them too. The mofo on the other hand balances right at the choil like the TM does giving it a more lively feel i like in a big blade. They are designed as a fighting knife but i find they make great all around utility knives for the woods.

pic next to a Keating crossada and Fehrman hoodhunter10 for reference
100_1650.jpg
 
Infi-del said:
The one I saw in person doesn't have pics (We didn't have a camera on us). But there was a thread on it in this very forum I think a long time ago. If you have a 90% angle cut into anything, and then you apply opposing forces to either side, you are going to be focussing all that stress on that very point. When you chop the blade's forward movement is suddenly stopped by the the thing your chopping but your hand motion tends to want to keep moving forward. It'd be the same as putting the knife in a vise, edge up, and then suddenly dropping a massive amount of weight on the top of the handle. All the force is going to center in that little corner. But having a rounded curve there, it's going to distribute the force evenly.
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You are 100% correct, Infi-del. I am a die hard Trailmaster fan, I love them, love the balance, feel, just about everything. But (you knew that was coming, didn't you :D), CS could take a lesson from Swamp Rat. If you ever see how the large Swamp Rat tangs are radiused, such as the Camp Tramp or Battle Rat, that's how it should be done. That one modification would make the TM as close to ideal as it could get.

I've never had a failure, and have beaten mine to death, but a nicely radiused tang would absolutely complete the package to close to perfection.
 
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