Do you prefer rolling or chipping?

N

Nimravus Nut

Joined
Jan 17, 2003
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202
I have started collecting knives about 5 years ago, but due to my limited budget, I have only about 15 knives total and most of them in 154cm steel.

I have read alot of posts and I'm having problem with finding a stainless that would keep a decent edge (need to be around 59 Rc) and not have the tendency to chip.:(

Most of my knives are BM, I did have trouble with a couple of them chipping, but is 154cm the best "traditional" stainless? Is there a huge difference between manufacturers tempering techniques on the same steel (I also did have a Microtech a while back and it did chip more than BMs)?

I'm not interested in s30v or any powder steels because I still don't think the cost justifies their performance yet.
 
Nimravus Nut said:
Most of my knives are BM, I did have trouble with a couple of them chipping, but is 154cm the best "traditional" stainless? Is there a huge difference between manufacturers tempering techniques on the same steel (I also did have a Microtech a while back and it did chip more than BMs)?
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Well best is a strong word, all knives have their strenghts but no steel is "best".

There is definately a difference between heat treating between companies, for example BM 440C is pretty damn good especially when compared to frost cutlery, or maybe even Kershaw.

Earlier some people said that they had serious problems with S30V chipping


I think you maybe looking for a high-carbon steel. Or maybe a semi-stainless, have you tried M2? I've never had a blade chip, what are you doing?
 
First, what are you doing to chip blades? Perhaps you need to reassess what kind of knife/steel you are using to do the jobs you are doing.

Heat treat varies significantly from company to company. Lower RC might help reduce the chipping problem.
 
Nimravus Nut said:
I'm not interested in s30v or any powder steels because I still don't think the cost justifies their performance yet.
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Pick up a Spyderco Native I for $40 at many online stores or walk into a Wal-Mart for one. That's exactly what it's there for, an economical S30V knife, yet strong and reliable.
 
Slvgx said:
Pick up a Spyderco Native I for $40 at many online stores or walk into a Wal-Mart for one. That's exactly what it's there for, an economical S30V knife, yet strong and reliable.
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Ditto, best deal on the planet! Make sure to look at a few and pick out the least blade play.
 
Chipping shouldn't be a problem in a small to medium knife that is employed in small to medium knife tasks. 154CM, S30V, BG-42 and all those hold a good edge and are relatively maintainance free. If you're looking towards bigger, heavier knives intended for chopping, splitting and other rougher work, these steels are not a great choice. As others have said, look towards the tool steels or the simpler alloys (O1, 5160, 1084/1095, etc.) and you'll do much better for the rough stuff.

As to rolling versus chipping, think of it this way---a rolled edge can be pulled straight again. A chipped edge either has to be left as-is or ground out, removing (wasting) a lot of good steel to eliminate the chip. Rolling/blunting is very much preferable to chipping. Any of the tougher steels mentioned above will chip eventually, but they resist it a whole lot better than the stainless steels you mentioned.
 
S30V is great and generally considered the best stainless steel, but if you feel most knives in S30V are too expensive, then look at ATS-34 and VG-10.

The aforementioned Native in S30V would be great for you. S30V and only 40 bucks. But barring that, there are many well-priced knives in ATS-34 and VG-10. Two examples are the Delica (VG-10) and Buck Sirus (available in ATS-34). Both can be had for under 60 dollars. ATS-34 is very similar to 154CM. Actually, the Sirus might be in ATS-55, not ATS-34... but either way it is a steel to look for.

D2 is a tool steel, but it is very stain resistant and almost qualifies as a stainless steel. It will perform comparable to S30V and 154CM. Cabellas sells a Griptilian in D2.
 
rolling is usually better, but if your steel is soft and it rolls to easy then it will cold work itself right off the edge so that is not good. Chipping is never good, but as pani said, for folding knife tasks it should not be a great issue.

ats34/154cm is a great steel. I have always been happy with it in my Benchmades and MT's.
 
t1mpani said:
Chipping shouldn't be a problem in a small to medium knife that is employed in small to medium knife tasks. 154CM, S30V, BG-42 and all those hold a good edge and are relatively maintainance free. If you're looking towards bigger, heavier knives intended for chopping, splitting and other rougher work, these steels are not a great choice. As others have said, look towards the tool steels or the simpler alloys (O1, 5160, 1084/1095, etc.) and you'll do much better for the rough stuff.

As to rolling versus chipping, think of it this way---a rolled edge can be pulled straight again. A chipped edge either has to be left as-is or ground out, removing (wasting) a lot of good steel to eliminate the chip. Rolling/blunting is very much preferable to chipping. Any of the tougher steels mentioned above will chip eventually, but they resist it a whole lot better than the stainless steels you mentioned.
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:thumbup: :D
Choose the steel for the knife's intended use. The above quote is what I would have suggested. I would add A2 and S7 into the large camp/chopper catagory. In a smaller fixed blade/folder, D2 is hard to beat. As far as rolling or chipping, with a good HT it shouldn't do either.
Scott
 
underaged! said:
I think you maybe looking for a high-carbon steel. Or maybe a semi-stainless, have you tried M2? I've never had a blade chip, what are you doing?
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I did use my nimravus to pry open food cans that has paint can like lid and broke off about 1/8" of the tip. another time i was cutting 1/4" ply wood and i side swiped it a little and it chipped about 1/32" out the edge.:(
 
That sucks. You might want to get yourself an Atwood, Prybaby. It's a really great companion to your knives and will take care of most day-to-day prying. :thumbup:
 
My Cuda Dominator tanto assisted opener with s30v steel chipped in 3 places about 1" from the tip.

This happened while shaving bark from throw sticks for my dog. I think the damage occurred at the knotty portions of the stick or possibly from the grit on the bark.

I certainly wouldn't classify this as abuse but have come to accept that s30v is not the super steel some think it to be. Of course the heat treat may have been off.

It's my beater and semi-permanent edc so it really doesn't bother me. Just be aware that all steels lack superiority in some degree.
 
For a short blade i don't think the problem of chipping comes from the steel (154CM or S30V). It comes from prying and may be from the way you sharp yours blades. I don't know anything better than a convex secondary bevel. Try it and buy a prybar if you need to pry.

Dantzk.
 
I'm not sure, for a short blade, your chipping problem comes from the steel (154CM or S30V). It comes from prying and may be from the way you sharp the blade. I don't know better than a convex secondary bevel.

Dantzk.
 
Sorry for the double post. This ######## machine don't obey.

Dantzk.
 
dantzk8 said:
For a short blade i don't think the problem of chipping comes from the steel (154CM or S30V). It comes from prying and may be from the way you sharp yours blades. I don't know anything better than a convex secondary bevel. Try it and buy a prybar if you need to pry.

Dantzk.
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I have reprofiled most of my blades around 20 degrees perside using japanese water stones (we all know factory edge from BM is too thick), but even at this angle (40 degrees total) the blade still seems to be brittle compared to my gerber freeman in 440c. it seems since i can profile the freeman extremely thin it almost made freeman (a $30 knife) better overall performer than my BM.:grumpy:
 
Nimravus Nut said:
I have reprofiled most of my blades around 20 degrees perside using japanese water stones (we all know factory edge from BM is too thick), but even at this angle (40 degrees total) the blade still seems to be brittle compared to my gerber freeman in 440c.
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It was more obtuse than that when it chipped on plywood? The blade is defective. You can chop that up and not have the edge chip let alone just cut/slice it.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, given a properly heat treated 440c at 57-58hrc, 154cm/ats34 at 59-60hrc, and vg-10 at 59hrc, which one would you pick? I do need the stain resistance and comparable level of edge retention, but I'm most concerned with the resistance to withstand edge chipping.
 
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