Does a makers ability to stay competitive effect your current purchase decision.

L

Les Robertson

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I know long subject.

Does a makers ability to stay competitive in their market (and possibly other markets in the future, long and short term); effect you decision to buy a knife from then today?

No need for makers names here, just curious if this is part of your purchasing thought process.



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Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
 
Yes, It does for me.

I know that a maker who is successful at promoting his product over longer periods is more likely to generate a paper trail, and that is essential if the knives are going to retain or gain in value. Every day he is out there marketing a new knife he is also in effect working to improve the value of his earlier works.

N2S

 
Not really. I will make an order or seek out a knife based on what is interesting to me.

Les, does being competitive in their market mean that they are competitive as price is concerned or is it based on their ability to come up with new designs?
 
I look at knives that are within my budget & if they are the style that I am looking for. I look for knives that are intended to be used so the knife has to be durable & functional such as full tang versus stick tang. If I do not good customer service from a maker, I will not buy from him which I have some on my list right now. The warranty that comes with the knife especially if they are intended to be used hard. So far I do not think that anyone else has a better warranty than Busse even though they are not considered a custom shop.
 
Hi Roger,

Competitive means "overall". Price is certainly a factor. However, other factors come into play.

Example, is the maker versatile. Both in the types of knives they can make and in the materials that they can or will use.

Each "style" of knife has it's own market. Each maker who makes that style of knife has a rung on the ladder. Some are moving up on the ladder, some are moving down.

If I ask you to name the top three cola drinks in the US. You will likely get Coke and Pepsi, in either order those are a given.

Now, name number 3.

It is that way in many of the custom categories. The top 1 or 2, maybe 10 are easy to identify. It's that number 11 maker that you are looking for.

That level of that maker's competitiveness may or may not push them into the top 10.

As for warranties, I don't know of a professional custom knife maker that does not stand behind their work 100%. As long as you are using the knife for it's intended purpose.




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Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
 
No, it doesn't effect my decisions at all. In fact I feel that thinking along those lines would negatively effect my decisions on what I want to buy

Let me explain, I don't want to look at my buying a knife as a business decision, for me it would take the joy out of it.

Les, I like you and respect your perspective of knives and collecting, but I'm one of your 2% that don't get into trading knives. I buy them to own them forever. If I were to start basing my decisions on future growth potential of a knife or a maker then I would be basing my purchases on what someone else thinks or might think in the future. I don't want to do that with my knives since I don't consider them to be an investment, just a passion.

Don't get me wrong, I do my homework before a purchase and I like to see that others like what I like, but when all is said and done my purchases are based in the here and now and nobodies opinion carries more weight than mine.

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"Will work 4 Knives!"
My PhotoPoint Site
 
Les, to tell you the truth I really never think of the future potential of any of the knives that I buy. What I think of is, am I willing to pay the price asked for the knife that I am interested in and am I confident in the ability of the maker to supply me with the knife in a reasonable length of time. The fact that it may or may not hold it's value in the marketplace is totally unimportant to me since this knife was purchased for my enjoyment not as an investment.

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Keith

AKTI Member #A001338
 
I accumulate custom knives from two distinct categories: utility folders that I carry and use, and art/presentation knives that I keep under glass as pristine display items.

I choose users based on:
Workmanship, ergonomics, and pragmatic no-frills design.

I buy collectibles based on:
Fit and finish, artistic merit, quality/rarity/beauty of materials, and lastly -- perceived value, both current and future.

I have too much money sunk into my collection not to consider its “investment” potential. If a maker is an innovative, cutting-edge designer (as opposed to a trend follower), that will definitely influence my decision to purchase his work if the quality of workmanship is up to snuff. I don’t care how competitive or highly touted a maker is if he lacks the refined skills to pull off his designs. I've seen too many folding art daggers with $5K worth of engraving and gold inlay that have wandering grinds or off-center blades.

Trends come and go. Top craftsmanship is comparatively timeless. I enjoy my collection for its own sake, but it sure doesn’t hurt to know that it’s worth many $K over what I have into it. I occasionally like to trade a knife for something new, and because I do my homework, I can usually trade up.
 
Les, i buy what i like and use most of them and not really concerned with future looss/profit on it when i decide to turn my collection elsewhere. I have both made and lost money on knives that i have sold, even some of them to you Les. I think that just being able to claim ownership of some makers is enough justification for the purchase.Buy what appeals to you and use it, that is what they are made for.

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Carpe' Diem
Usual Suspect AKA Tattoo
 
Good question Les,

Like PhilL I buy knives because they are the knives I want at that moment. I may decide later that I hadn't done my homework and the purchase wasn't the best for one reason or another.

That being said...I have never sold a knife and don't intend to. Also, I don't buy used knives. (Although if I found a Hermann Sliver for $100 I would be extremely tempted.)
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I guess I am not a 'true' collector because, for me, the value of a knife is in my head and hand...not in a cash register.

Steve-O
 
Another from the "2%", Les!
wink.gif
I buy what I like, with no real intention of selling.

I accept an increase in "market value" as perhaps an affirmation of my eye, sort of like receiving a compliment. It's not my reason for purchase, and it's not a gain I actually realize (Not at this point in my collecting career - maybe someday I'll be able to part with one of my babies!), but it's sort of nice to have the confidence that I place in a new maker, or a maker's skill in execution, validated by the community in general, as evidenced by the maker's stock rising.

So I guess to answer your question, Les, I don't buy the knives based upon the maker's potential for appreciation, but I do definitely note it before the fact, and enjoy it after.
 
Well said Brian, I guess I am in that 2% also.

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" The real art of living is to keep alive the longing in human beings to become greater versions of themselves." Laurens Van der Post in memory of James Mattis
 
Another 2%-er here Les. Just want 'em to perform when I use em, and keep on performing for many a year.

Competition only enters in the price department, and that not very often. Not concerned about what the price will be after I buy it and use it.
 
In reading Les' question again, and seeing that I only addressed "competitive" from a financial investment perspective, I'll add to my response by saying that I am drawn to makers who are constantly pushing both their own and the "industry's" envelope. So from that perspective, I think that I can say their efforts to maintain current (A better word here, I think, than competitive), both in terms of design and technology, do play a part in my decision.

The maker's efforts in this area tells me that the maker is growing, and his work will reflect that growth. Additionally, I get a charge out of helping makers to expand their boundaries, a task which is fairly difficult when a maker is "coasting".

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"My knife is bigger than yours. You suck." - Lewis Black
 
I used to think I bought knives to keep forever and ever, amen. But now I know that I will probably sell or trade a few along the way.
Yes, the maker's staying power and future value is a consideration of mine.
If it is a wonderful knife and I never sell it, that's great. If I sell it at or above initial cost, that's also great. I want to avoid buying knives from come-and-go makers that drop in value. I figure there are plenty of both kinds to choose from so why not try to pick the winners?
Jeff
 
No, Maybe, Sometimes, Yes.

For some knives, I do think about how likely the maker is to stay in the business, and stay competitive, and keep the value of their knives going up. I would like to say that this is never a consideration, but I guess it is somewhere in the back of my mind because it affects how I percieve the current value of a knife.

I have never bought a knife planning to resell it. But I admit not wanting to see the value of my knives fall dramatically. My basic buying process is that I buy knives that I like when I see and handle them. There are plenty of famous makers whose knives I do not particularly care for and will not buy, even if I think their is some 'investment' potential in their work.

I own the work of a couple of relatively unknown makers in part because I thought they may become 'stars'. I would like to be able to collect their work over time and see it progress. But if that does not happen, I will be dissapointed, but since I am not spending huge dollars on these knives, their future value is unimportant.

My purchasing thought process goes something like this:

Knife design and materials first. Quality of construction second. Maker's name, reputation, and philosophy, third. Current price fourth. Future value, last.

Once I decide the current price is justified for the knife, I have decided that the knife is worth More than the money. Once the money is gone, and I have the knife, I often find the value of the knife to me is much more than is apparent 'market' value.

I know you said there was no need to name makers, but I thing this one name helps illustrate my thinking. I bought a Buster Warenski knife last year from you, Les. I thought the price I paid was fair. Warenski is a name that will continue to stay competitive, and there is a chance that the value of that knife will increase. But...I did not buy it for that reason. I bought it because I liked that particular knife, and because I enjoy wanted to own a knife made by such a talented and respected maker. The knife is definitely worth more to me than the money I paid you for it.

As long as my knives are worth more to me than the dollars they will bring, they will not be for sale.

Paracelsus, noting that 2% seems to be A LOT of people
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That's a pretty vague question Les. There is price, technology, and delivery time that I can think of in terms of "competitiveness". For me, price sets ceiling and that is all. Technology comes into play only insofar as the materials and processes to which they are subjected are well understood by the bladesmith. I'm not a steel snob, but I'd like to believe that the people whose knives I buy know what they are doing when they make them.

That leaves delivery time, probably the only criterion that really matters to me. I know custom knives take time. I don't expect a custom knife maker to have what I want "in stock", even when I'm choosing a vannila pattern from their catalog. I don't think I'd wait a year for a knife however, so I don't go to those makers who have such long waiting lists. If I talk to a knife maker, I'll make allowances for what ever time he tells me the knife will take. If its too long, I'll say no thanks. If its OK (I've gone 12 weeks), I'm willing to wait, but I do become unhappy if the actual delivery is long past the promised time frame, and by long, I mean more than maybe 50% of the originally promised time. Still, my unhappiness can be mitigated to some extent by prompt response and explanation too. I try to be reasonable...
 
Hi Matt,

The question is not vague, perhaps just some of the criteria.

However, that is developed by each person.

I have my criteria as does everyone else here. Some elements will overlap, but probably not enough to come up with one standard set of criteria for all the different styles of knives.


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Les Robertson
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
 
For "using" knives, no. I fact, if the quality is there but the marketing and/or hype is not, a bargain often results.

 
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