Does a propane forge emit UV rays??

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Mar 14, 2000
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I finally fired up my propane forge this weekend. I was able to put together a couple of days of heating and beating on some steel. Problem is, my face feels a little bit sunburned. I was wearing some protective shop glasses but I don't know if they filter UV IR rays. Does a propane forge emit these kinds of rays? If so, what do ya'll recommend for eye protection?

Rick
 
Yep. I notice myself get a tan when I use my charcoal forge, which gets amazingly hot.
not so much when I use my propane as it has only 2 small doors, to isolate the heat.
Get some shade 3 safety glasses or goggles.

Joe Renner
 
Thanks Joe! Are Shade 3 glasses very dark? Will I be able to see the colors of the steel OK?

Rick
 
That's a good question. Does actual "fire" or the process of combustion produce UV? What is UV? Its the lower (I think) end of the light spectrum, right? So if a fire makes light, it would only stand to reason that at least SOME UV is being produced.

I just bought Jim Hrisoulas' Forging Damascus video and he recommends a pair of (xxxx)-type of glasses to wear while forging. I'm so sorry but the name eludes me still and I have watched the video 4 times! BUT! I'll wager that Centaur Forge has something like them, if not the very brand.

Still, I have spent countless hours in front of the forge and I know what you mean. It's rather the same effect you get from your blood vessels in your face being so expanded after being so hot for so long. (Is anyone buying this? *chuckle*)

Just my thoughts. Peace bro!

Jeff
 
Thanks Jeff and Joe. I just called my local welding supplier about the Shade 3's. They are about 10.00.. A lot cheaper than a new set of eyeballs:eek: I sunburned my eyes real bad once when I was young and dumb. Now it seems like they are way too sensitive to just about anything. Thanks again for the tips guys!

BTW... I know it was a duh! sort of a question but it's a good chance to forget about work for a minute and talk shop with all you guys. I find it really hard to concentrate on work since I started getting into this forging sport. LOVE IT!

Rick
 
I think i did the calculation right (dont quote me)

If you assume that your steel and your forge is a blackbody (perfect emitter and absorber of radiation) then UV radiation could start to be produced at about 10000 deg K or 17,540 deg F. But physics is no longer my strong suit so i may have messed it up, but the number seems pretty good, since before making UV your steel would be White hot and then start to turn blue.

you could be cooking your skin with IR, like the heat lamps at a fast food joint.
 
Dudes: I use the UV/radiation protections, I really don't know if they work or not. But after six eye surgerys I am not taking any chances. Being blind really sucks.
Anyone that works in my shop or comes to my Hammer-In's wears eye protection.
 
Originally posted by LizardKing
I think i did the calculation right (dont quote me)

If you assume that your steel and your forge is a blackbody (perfect emitter and absorber of radiation) then UV radiation could start to be produced at about 10000 deg K or 17,540 deg F. But physics is no longer my strong suit so i may have messed it up, but the number seems pretty good, since before making UV your steel would be White hot and then start to turn blue.

you could be cooking your skin with IR, like the heat lamps at a fast food joint.
you had to have miscalculated. The sun isnt even near that hot.
Im thinking, and this is just shop time talking, UV starts (or at least has good effect) at about 2000-2500F.
And its not just the UV you should worry about. the radiation/intense light that is put out, even on the steel is damaging to the eyes.
 
The sun doesn't put out UV cuz of the heat, it puts out UV from the Nuclear reactions taking place in it(fusion at the core, varoius fissions/fusions as you get out to the outer layers).

Rather, it may emit UV because of heat too(don't think so, but I'm no expert), but the primary source of the suns radiation is byproducts from the actual fusion and fission, not the heat. the heat itself is one of the byproducts, as heat is EM radiation below infrared.

UV is short wavelength, but actually higher energy band of light. UV is what's above violet(go figure :) ) Infrared is what is below red, energy wise, though it has longer wavelength. Light goes from 700nm-450nm in wavelength(red to violet) with UV having a shorter wavelength than 450nm and Infrared having a longer wavelength than the red.

Least, that's quick quotes from memory.

As with Lizard king, I'm not a physicist(computer network ing is my specialty), but I am a general nerd. :)
 
okay, that makes since. I was wandering why the forge only puts out a little UV, duh becuase only some of the flame is ultraviolet. hehe I understand now.
Joe Renner
 
Unless the glasses actually say they have a UV protective coating I'm not sure I'd rely on the dark shades. Wouldn't dark glasses (without UV protection) just dilate the pupils and allow even more UV into the eye?

At least my seeing glasses I wear all of the time have UV protection, but this thread has come up several times on several forums and the jury seems to be out on just what we should be wearing to protect our eyes.

Someone mentioned the dydimium (not sure on the spelling there) glasses, but they are specifically manufactured to protect against soda flare for glass workers, so I'm not sure what actual good they do for steel workers.

Still, maybe the No. 3's IF they have a UV protective coating might be the best bet.
 
Silent,
After some reading, my understanding is that if they meet a ANSI standard they block out most UV
 
I don't know and I don't even know if I'm doing myself any good, but I wear mirrored sun glasses when I open my Even Heat. No one told me but I just figured there could be some UV from the heating elements at temps that ATS-34, s30v and such like to be heated to.

Roger
 
a fire produces waves closer to the low-end. that's why it tends to produce a lot of IR (heck, even the human body produces IR). IR is what feels hot. at higher temperatures, you start pushing the high end of the visible spectrum till you produce high-end invisible light (UV- up). UV is what kills living cells (meaning it sunburns you). you hardly feel it.

by the way, the sun is hottest at noon when it hits you directly (IR). but UVs are strongest in the morning. that's when it feels good to walk without a shirt but that's when you often get sunburned (and your eyes seared).
 
Uv & Ir light cooks your eyes from the inside out, it burns up you cone and rods and it cummulitive and generally non reversing, in the case of feeling facial burns some eye damage has occured. Usually a person with exposure to flash burns looses some color vision, then some of the close up detail vision. Dark glasses might prevent flash burn wich really is a corneal abraision/burn but unless the glasses say uv/ir blocker then there not very effective,and dangerous. Its hard to stick a piece of hot steel if you can see it or if you have to have your face so close to the work you melt your facial hair. I watched the Hirsoulas video and he does the glasses on the camera lense so you can see the differerence. There called diedium, the shading is light lavender. Its very easy to see the flux bubbles on the surface of the billet. The glasses come in a variety of saftey frames as well as a few hinge top clip ons for folks who where glasses already. My mom is a glass artist and does some benchtop glass fusing with this supper hot oxy/propane tourch it emits a bright babt blue colored flame and it hurts to look at worse than a flash burn. She uses the diedium glasses, Ive tried them out in her shop and my own there amazing. She get them at art glass supply houses, "warning there expensive" 60$ to start Aperson might try to get them in a non perscpiption lens from americas beast or vista optical,and pay for the warranty insurance. just my 2 cents....
 
Frontier Forge

OK, I think I found the glasses... Here's the link.

http://www.artglass1.com/didymiuminfo.htm

It says that they provide adequate protection for UV but they sound marginal for IR. The bonus is that they allow for 80% color transmission, so judging colors in them is easier than other options.
Do these look like what you were refering to?

Rick
 
Thats them, the rose diydium. Not sur about the color enhanced, they offer same protection. But we deal with reds,oranges,yellow. Hope that helped. Ide still try vista optical or americas best optical
 
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