does anyone just carry an illegal knife and get away with it?

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I never carried anything overtly illegal like a switchblade, but I have carried a fair share of knives and other weapons could be illegal but are not expressly prohibited in my state (such as fixed blades in a fully concealed manner). In my state you actually are allowed to carry autos and any other knife you want as long as it's not concealed. And all folders (including balisongs) are legal to carry concealed.

I didn't carry a switchblade the past a) because they are impossible to get legally in my state as sale itself is illegal and b) I was erroneously under the impression that they were illegal to own. Now that I know the law, I still avoid them because maintaining non-concealment purely for the technicality of lawful carry is something I'd rather not worry about. And furthermore (and I may ruffle some feathers with this statement) all autos I see fall into two categories: Cheap pieces of a junk imported from china that break easily and don't hold an edge, and ultra high-tech high priced rich man's tacticool "toys" that I could never justify buying in light of how limited they are for use. If I want a knife that opens the fastest, I carry a fixed blade. If I want a convenient pocket knife, any thumbstud folder will do just fine. Come to think of it even if the law changed to allow carry, I'm not convinced I would buy one.
 
Carrying legally doesn't mean you won't get in trouble!

There's a guy on another forum who was asking about what to do about being ARRESTED for an Kershaw Chive!
The officer(s) were obviously wrong on the law concerning switchblades, but that didn't stop him from being arrested, truck impounded, etc.

I happen to know the lieutenant for that office (a good guy that knows his stuff) and asked about it. He rolled his eyes at the news of the arrest and confirmed that the DA wouldn't charge because the DA knows the Chive is not a switchblade. That's fine, but that doesn't fix the trouble, trauma and expense of getting arrested in the first place.

Point is, it would have been 10x the headache if he WAS carrying a switchblade. He was a candidate for the fire department and a conviction could have scuttled that, he said. He was very worried.
Best you can do is know the law and operate within its confines wherever you are.
 
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Another problem are ambiguous laws. In theory, I should have no problem carrying an Izula in NYC, and I often do. However, the current climate might induce a police officer to call it a "dangerous knife." A few years ago, I wouldn't have given this a second thought, now...?

Jordan
 
LARRYZ10 said:
In my state it is better to have a concealed gun permit than a pocketknife of any kind...California...don't move here for any reason other than a job.
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Actually, California knife laws are some of the most lenient in the country. I don't know about Bakersfield, but down here in San Diego (which follows the state statutes) we can carry any size folder openly or conceald, we can carry any size fixed-blade as long as it isn't conceald, and we can carry switchblades if the blade isn't longer than 2 inches. I'd say we've got it pretty good as far as knives go.

Though carrying an illegal switchblade is a only a misdemeanor here in CA, and not likely to result in criminal charges (as long as you weren't committing some other crime. Cops and prosecuters are busy enough as it is), I still don't reccommend carrying one. At the very least you would lose the knife. Keep it at home.

In general, if anyone is thinking that carrying an illegal knife in their car, or in a backpack, etc, will protect them from the law, they should read their local laws. For example, here in CA having an illegal switchblade in your car or in a bag is considered the same as carrying it in your pocket.
 
I wouldnt carry an auto here, but I dont give size of blade a second thought. I only carry a fixed camping and every ranger or sheriff I ever met has been cool about it, which I think out here fixed is fine in the woods.

So I have illegally carried knives that are too big, but no autos, too much trouble for what purpose?
 
Critter said:
Thanks to all you suggested contacting Knife Rights. Broadly speaking, at a state level our goals are to oppose bad knife legislation, repeal bad knife laws and enact knife law preemption so that the knife laws within each state are the same everywhere. That doesn't happen overnight, but we are aggressively working to accomplish these goals as quickly as funding and political reality allows. Our record of accomplishments continues to grow. We can't do it without your financial support. Every state we go to work in costs tens of thousands of dollars. Our freedom isn't free.

As to carrying illegally, our considered advice is "don't!" The phone calls I get from generally law-abiding citizens who have gotten caught with an illegal knife are often heartbreaking. Legal costs can ruin you, as can incompetent state provided legal representation (Legal Aid, Public Defender, etc), and a record can seriously adversely impact your life. The psychological impact of an arrest and defending yourself can be very detrimental to your health, way beyond just lost sleep. There is no way to ensure you won't get caught. The circumstances where a person ends up arrested for an illegal knife are as varied as can be, but it does happen and usually nobody expects it. Traffic stops, accidents, you name it, situations arise over which you have little or no control and then you are in the deep end. Just DON'T DO IT!

Help us change the law. The more states in which we we change the law without "blood running in the streets," the easier it is to change in the next state. Help us towards a Sharper Future for all Americans™. Please support Knife Rights generously.
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Pretty offensive to those of us who are " incompetent state provided legal representation (Legal Aid, Public Defender, etc."

As an attorney who has been on the side of the State (prosecuting crimes), Private Defense, and Public Defense (as a contractor), I feel that this statement does your organization no good. It has been my pleasure to know and deal with competent public defenders, private defense attorneys, and prosecutors.

It has also been my experience that you can find incompetence on all sides of the profession. Prosecutors, Private Defense, Public Defenders, and even sitting on the Bench. I can point out just as many incompetent Private attorneys as Public defenders (probably more so). Success for a defendant who does not pay me is just as sweet (often sweeter) than success for one who paid me handsomely for the exact same service.

You do your organization harm by insulting those of us who represent defendants, often using information learned from your site.

I have personally saved a handful of my clients from prosecution under the WA statute, by simply providing the federal definition of switchblade, and pointing out the exemption for spring assisted knives. I then took the time to show the prosecutors in my court room a video showing slow motion spring assisted knife action. I was able to convince the prosecutor to dismiss a handful of those cases before the statute was changed in WA to specifically exempt spring assisted knives.

Though, in Washington the law is still problematic and vague with regards to "dangerous weapon"

RCW 9.41.250
Dangerous weapons — Penalty — Exemption for law enforcement officers.



*** CHANGE IN 2012 *** (SEE 2347-S.SL) ***

(1) Every person who:

(a) Manufactures, sells, or disposes of or possesses any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slung shot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife, or any knife the blade of which is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement;

(b) Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon; or

(c) Uses any contrivance or device for suppressing the noise of any firearm unless the suppressor is legally registered and possessed in accordance with federal law,

is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.

And:

RCW 9.41.270
Weapons apparently capable of producing bodily harm — Unlawful carrying or handling — Penalty — Exceptions.


(1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.

(2) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (1) above shall be guilty of a gross misdemeanor. If any person is convicted of a violation of subsection (1) of this section, the person shall lose his or her concealed pistol license, if any. The court shall send notice of the revocation to the department of licensing, and the city, town, or county which issued the license.

(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to or affect the following:

(a) Any act committed by a person while in his or her place of abode or fixed place of business;

(b) Any person who by virtue of his or her office or public employment is vested by law with a duty to preserve public safety, maintain public order, or to make arrests for offenses, while in the performance of such duty;

(c) Any person acting for the purpose of protecting himself or herself against the use of presently threatened unlawful force by another, or for the purpose of protecting another against the use of such unlawful force by a third person;

(d) Any person making or assisting in making a lawful arrest for the commission of a felony; or

(e) Any person engaged in military activities sponsored by the federal or state governments.



To the Original Poster, or any one in the same situation, I would recommend looking up your state and local statutes, and paying attention.

If there is a chance you might be cross an imaginary line, plan to carry according to the most restrictive area you will encounter.

I don't tend to be of the opinion that "all officers are bad". Lots of good ones out there doing their job.

My advice is to always be polite and pleasant with officers. You can identify your self upon request. Don't let them search your car. Make them apply for a warrant. If they start searching without one, ask to see their warrant (but don't physically interfere).

Any statements you make to them will likely come back to bite you. It may be misquoted badly, even being quoted as the complete opposite as what you said (when the officer gets around to writing his report hours, days, or even weeks later).

If the officer says that you said something in their report, the prosecutor will take it as gospel (unless and until the officer is caught in an outright lie, or perjury on the stand). I have seen this first hand, and have even seen prosecutors take everything an officer says at face value even after he has been proven to be a liar.

Officers often do not know the law, or are completely mistaken as to what the actual law is. There are officers who go around citing and arresting folks who obey the letter of the law exactly. In one such situation, I had a prosecutor tell me "Troopers would not be arresting people for no reason, they know the law" That prosecutor refused to read the statute I presented to her, which clearly showed the citizen was doing exactly what the law required of him. The prosecutor told me to "just file a motion", instead taking the three minutes to look at the statute. Luckily there was another prosecutor there who was interested, and convinced her to take a moment to read it.

I give this as an example, because even if you are completely in the right, and are following the statute, you can still be cited or arrested, and then get the enjoyment of trying to sort it out, with a prosecutor, judge, and defense counsel who does not know the law either (rare that all three would occur at the same time, but it does happen).

There are excellent books detailing the carry laws in every state. If you are serious about it, and have questions, I suggest you take advantage of these. It is money well spent.


(None of this is meant as "legal advice", and in no way creates a legal relationship between my self and the reader.........there, I said it).
 
Bigfattyt said:
Pretty offensive to those of us who are " incompetent state provided legal representation (Legal Aid, Public Defender, etc."

As an attorney who has been on the side of the State (prosecuting crimes), Private Defense, and Public Defense (as a contractor), I feel that this statement does your organization no good. It has been my pleasure to know and deal with competent public defenders, private defense attorneys, and prosecutors.

It has also been my experience that you can find incompetence on all sides of the profession. Prosecutors, Private Defense, Public Defenders, and even sitting on the Bench. I can point out just as many incompetent Private attorneys as Public defenders (probably more so). Success for a defendant who does not pay me is just as sweet (often sweeter) than success for one who paid me handsomely for the exact same service.

You do your organization harm by insulting those of us who represent defendants, often using information learned from your site.

I have personally saved a handful of my clients from prosecution under the WA statute, by simply providing the federal definition of switchblade, and pointing out the exemption for spring assisted knives. I then took the time to show the prosecutors in my court room a video showing slow motion spring assisted knife action. I was able to convince the prosecutor to dismiss a handful of those cases before the statute was changed in WA to specifically exempt spring assisted knives.

<snip>


To the Original Poster, or any one in the same situation, I would recommend looking up your state and local statutes, and paying attention.

If there is a chance you might be cross an imaginary line, plan to carry according to the most restrictive area you will encounter.

I don't tend to be of the opinion that "all officers are bad". Lots of good ones out there doing their job.

My advice is to always be polite and pleasant with officers. You can identify your self upon request. Don't let them search your car. Make them apply for a warrant. If they start searching without one, ask to see their warrant (but don't physically interfere).

Any statements you make to them will likely come back to bite you. It may be misquoted badly, even being quoted as the complete opposite as what you said (when the officer gets around to writing his report hours, days, or even weeks later).

If the officer says that you said something in their report, the prosecutor will take it as gospel (unless and until the officer is caught in an outright lie, or perjury on the stand). I have seen this first hand, and have even seen prosecutors take everything an officer says at face value even after he has been proven to be a liar.

Officers often do not know the law, or are completely mistaken as to what the actual law is. There are officers who go around citing and arresting folks who obey the letter of the law exactly. In one such situation, I had a prosecutor tell me "Troopers would not be arresting people for no reason, they know the law" That prosecutor refused to read the statute I presented to her, which clearly showed the citizen was doing exactly what the law required of him. The prosecutor told me to "just file a motion", instead taking the three minutes to look at the statute. Luckily there was another prosecutor there who was interested, and convinced her to take a moment to read it.

I give this as an example, because even if you are completely in the right, and are following the statute, you can still be cited or arrested, and then get the enjoyment of trying to sort it out, with a prosecutor, judge, and defense counsel who does not know the law either (rare that all three would occur at the same time, but it does happen).

There are excellent books detailing the carry laws in every state. If you are serious about it, and have questions, I suggest you take advantage of these. It is money well spent.


(None of this is meant as "legal advice", and in no way creates a legal relationship between my self and the reader.........there, I said it).
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Sorry if you are offended, but I have to deal with the grim and depressing reality that I see day in and day out of individuals who are not receiving adequate representation from public defenders, to use a generic term. I am sure there are good ones out there, but with virtually all of them seriously overwhelmed with cases and the ones I run into knowing little or nothing of knife related the law, that's the reality that an individual who must rely upon them needs to understand when they consider the possible down side of carrying an illegal knife. The odds are against you in that situation.

As you note, paying for representation is no guarantee of competence, but you get to make that choice at least, and with your eyes open, and you don't often get a choice the other way. We have helped some defendants get new public defenders and that has sometimes helped some in particularly bad situations. We have also helped some get new paid counsel.

As to your other points regarding dealing with the arrest, all entirely valid and good advice. We have seen all the situations you note, unfortunately, including numerous officers who perjured themselves. It's very, very difficult to have faith in the justice system when you see all this occur. For the average Joe who is arrested on some trumped-up knife charge, it is a nightmare at best. The fact that they may be able to beat the charge does nothing to mitigate the cost and psychological damage. And, there are too many times when lack of competent counsel combined with either bad or ignorant cops and prosecutors and then judges who are too willing to simply believe you are guilty until proven innocent results in true injustice.

It just isn't worth it to carry an illegal knife. And, as you note, even that's no guarantee if some cop decides to persecute you, for whatever reason.
 
Critter said:
Sorry if you are offended, but I have to deal with the grim and depressing reality that I see day in and day out of individuals who are not receiving adequate representation from public defenders, to use a generic term. I am sure there are good ones out there, but with virtually all of them seriously overwhelmed with cases and the ones I run into knowing little or nothing of knife related the law, that's the reality that an individual who must rely upon them needs to understand when they consider the possible down side of carrying an illegal knife. The odds are against you in that situation.

As you note, paying for representation is no guarantee of competence, but you get to make that choice at least, and with your eyes open, and you don't often get a choice the other way. We have helped some defendants get new public defenders and that has sometimes helped some in particularly bad situations. We have also helped some get new paid counsel.

As to your other points regarding dealing with the arrest, all entirely valid and good advice. We have seen all the situations you note, unfortunately, including numerous officers who perjured themselves. It's very, very difficult to have faith in the justice system when you see all this occur. For the average Joe who is arrested on some trumped-up knife charge, it is a nightmare at best. The fact that they may be able to beat the charge does nothing to mitigate the cost and psychological damage. And, there are too many times when lack of competent counsel combined with either bad or ignorant cops and prosecutors and then judges who are too willing to simply believe you are guilty until proven innocent results in true injustice.

It just isn't worth it to carry an illegal knife. And, as you note, even that's no guarantee if some cop decides to persecute you, for whatever reason.
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I don't offend easily. Yes, I do know PD's that I would not let represent any one I know, or cared about. I know just as many prosecutors I would not trust with my wallet, or in any position of authority! I have also seen even more officers caught committing outright crimes (theft of evidence, felony theft of motor vehicle, witness tampering, stealing drugs, perjury....then perjury to cover up the perjury until caught).


People don't realize the crushing power the police and prosecutors office wields until something happens to family or friends. People also don't realize how easily they can be falsely accused and charged with nothing but a word from some one else.
 
You have to ask yourself if it's worth it. Just like if a private business has a no firearms, or gun free zone sign, are you going to obey that and potentially risk your life in doing so? Look at that movie theater incident for instance....If it's concealed, no one would be the wiser. Although these days, a lot of manual action knives open just as easy and fast as automatics.
 
Bigfattyt said:
People don't realize the crushing power the police and prosecutors office wields until something happens to family or friends. People also don't realize how easily they can be falsely accused and charged with nothing but a word from some one else.
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Amen to that! We have had numerous instances in NYC where the officers involved assured the person arrested that it was "no big deal, it will be dismissed" as they are carted off to jail to be fingerprinted, mug shot, etc. And, I suspect they actually believe that. While it is true that most of the cases are either dealt with via an ACD (Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal - IOW, be a good boy for 6 months and it is dismissed) or outright dismissal in some cases with good counsel, BUT, the psychological hell these folks go through is really terrible and the cost will run from $5,000-$10,000, even assuming it doesn't go to trial! That's a huge amount for most folks.
 
Jack just curious, where are you from?
Knife laws and what's illegal or not differ from state to state
 
glistam said:
I never carried anything overtly illegal like a switchblade, but I have carried a fair share of knives and other weapons could be illegal but are not expressly prohibited in my state (such as fixed blades in a fully concealed manner). In my state you actually are allowed to carry autos and any other knife you want as long as it's not concealed. And all folders (including balisongs) are legal to carry concealed.

I didn't carry a switchblade the past a) because they are impossible to get legally in my state as sale itself is illegal and b) I was erroneously under the impression that they were illegal to own. Now that I know the law, I still avoid them because maintaining non-concealment purely for the technicality of lawful carry is something I'd rather not worry about. And furthermore (and I may ruffle some feathers with this statement) all autos I see fall into two categories: Cheap pieces of a junk imported from china that break easily and don't hold an edge, and ultra high-tech high priced rich man's tacticool "toys" that I could never justify buying in light of how limited they are for use. If I want a knife that opens the fastest, I carry a fixed blade. If I want a convenient pocket knife, any thumbstud folder will do just fine. Come to think of it even if the law changed to allow carry, I'm not convinced I would buy one.
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Your experiences are similar to mine. Back in 1978, when I first starting carrying a locking folder (Gerber FS II), our choice in folders was very limited by today's standards. The FS II was widely carried by armed professionals, including edged weapons expert David E. Steele. It was fairly lightweight, slim, opened quickly with one hand and was easily concealed in a front trouser pocket. I carried it daily for over 10 years, including 4 years of college, before giving it to a friend to settle a small debt.
A neighbor had a switchblade that was brought back from Mexico by his sister. It was a cheap piece of junk. Looked like it has been beaten out on a rock in Pakistan or one of those places that make copies of classic knives and firearms. When I went to Mexico myself with my girlfriend a few years ago, I noticed that nothing really changed. Yes, you can get fine leather products at bargain-basement prices, but the cutlery is crap! Cheap switchblades made of third-rate steel that won't even hold an edge. Really something you want to trust your life to? Yeah, right! (LOL!). I have also seen fine Benchmade autos, but for the price of one of those, I could buy myself another 12-gauge pump shotgun plus some ammo to go with it. I once tested my EDC knife (4" plain-edged Cold Steel Voyager) against a Benchmade auto. In terms of speed of opening, I found very little difference. Also, any auto has springs that are constantly under tension. If they take a set, the opening speed can be compromised or the knife could fail entirely, leaving the owner with a manually-opening folder.
 
Since this site does not allow discussion of illegal conduct.

Thread is closed.
 
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