Does anyone make a gas forge not propane

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Dec 31, 2003
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So the fire department is going to make me get a permit for every propane tank and I have to build a wall separating my forge from the tanks. I already had them about 8 feet away but that was not good enough. They want an actual wall separating the forge from the tanks. So now I'm looking for a natural gas forge to get away from propane. My chile forge will not run on natural gas, well not hot enough anyway. Is their anyone that makes affordable gas forges. I have seen a few big ones on eBay I am looking at but they range from 3000 to 8000 dollars and are huge. Can a vertical forge be converted to run gas instead of propane? I have an old uncle al forge 12" that has a electric blower. How hard would it be to convert it?
 
Normal gas utility pressure is very low, much lower than propane, combine that with lower energy of natural gas and you have some issues to overcome. If you're serious about using Nat Gas, Call your gas company and ask them to put in a high pressure tap, it shouldn't cost you anything.

Then you'll need to modify the burner, at the very least, with a larger orifice.

Google Ron Reil and visit his page for more info on burners. The page kind of looks like mish-mosh so it might take some time to find the info you're looking for especially since he uses "gas forge" interchangeably for propane and natural gas.
 
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What the Fire Dept. wants is the tanks outside the building. That is what the code term "a wall between the forge and the tank" means. If you forge inside your shop, just get a bulk tank delivered from the local gas supplier, pipe the gas through the shop wall with black iron piping or copper tubing, and you will be in business ( you may have to get it inspected by the fire marshal). It is usually cheaper to have bulk tanks filled by delivery, too. If you are using the forge just outside your garage/shop, and that is why they say there needs to be a wall, just build a 3X5 foot "L" shape cinderblock wall that is 4 feet high ... and put the bulk tank on the other side. Put a quick connect propane fitting on the tank, and snap on your 20" propane hose when you need to forge. Don't leave the hose attached to the tank for many reasons ( squirrels love to gnaw on them for one).
Jewelers have had to deal with this law. We all used to put a 20# tank in the corner, and run hoses to the torches. The law made that illegal, and we had to either put the tanks outside the building and pipe in the gas, or use 16 ounce tanks inside. Most all jewelers chose the small disposable tanks.

Now, this may all be a problem of a fire marshal reading the code wrong. As I said, the code is written the way it is to make it illegal to bring a propane tank larger than 16 ounces inside a building. This is a good law ( which many knifemakers ignore). There have been tragic fires and even explosions when these rules have not been followed. The law was primarily made to prevent BBQ grills being used within 20 feet of a residential building unless the tank was separated by a wall. This prevented people in high-rise apartments from putting a gas grill on the balcony. Good rule!

If you forge outside, the fire marshal may be applying the code wrong, because your forge isn't inside a building, and thus the "wall" rule does not apply.
Make a sketch of your forging area, take photos of your forge and tank, and go see the head fire inspector, or the Fire Chief. Tell him what you do with the forge and how you store it and the tanks when not in use. Many fire inspectors just aren't used to dealing with blacksmith/bladesmith folks in most cities. He may look at the info you provide and say it is OK. If not, ask him what changes you need to make to meet code. They want to work with you, and usually will be helpful. BUT, get in their face and you have created a worst enemy that can shut you down easily.....don't go there!







I am going to get on my soapbox as the safety curmudgeon here:
IT IS FOOLISH AT BEST, AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AT WORST, (and illegal in most all places) - TO PUT PROPANE TANKS INSIDE A GARAGE, FULLY ENCLOSED SHED, OR IN ANY OCCUPID BUILDING.
Make a covered rack outside, preferably at least 20 feet away from the building, and store them there. If you are worried about them being stolen, run a chain and lock through them, or make an expanded metal mesh door and lock it. If you are worried about rain and snow, drop a grill cover over the rack. If you have a lot of equipment to store, make a ventilated storage shed ( top and bottom ventilation - propane is heavier than air). Running a forge inside a garage is risky without good ventilation, and putting a 20 pound propane tank in the garage with it is just stupid. Final rant - buy at least one 10# AB fire extinguisher BEFORE you buy a forge or propane tank!
 
do a search here

Man I feel foolish. I did a google search first and it only had a few hits on blade forums so I ASSumed the information wasn't here. Man was I wrong. Their are several post's that are a wealth of knowledge. Thanks.
 
Your right Stacy. I went to the building inspectors office and spoke with them in person and had already shown them a layout of the shop. Because my landlord will not allow any drilling through his walls and our location a tank outside the shop is not an option. The fire marshall was going to let me build a wall in the shop separating the forge from the propane tanks, because I couldn't have the tanks outside. I am going to go that route for now to get the forge up and running since the forging season is so short here in Vegas. And redesign the shop around a NG forge like a few others have posted to get away from propane tanks altogether. I liked your comment about the forge being outside. It is in front of the garage doors. So I just roll up the garage door every time I forge anyway to keep the heat outside. It wouldn't be hard to just move the forge and tanks outside the shop when I am forging until I get everything set up like I want it and to keep the fire marshal happy.
 
Hello Jimmy,

Converting to use 1/4 psi natural gas is easy as long as you are using a forced air forge. The smallest oriface size should be 3/8th of an inch. Use a 1/4" ball valve to regulate gas flow instead of a needle valve. You can search Bladeforums for a few posts i've made on this topic over the years (here's one more recent http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/934512-Table-Forge-with-Ribbon-Burner ) or you can go to my website www.flemingknives.com and click on shop tour. Clicking on either the picture of my vertical forge or my table forge will get you more details regarding NG. Shoot me a PM if you need more details and we can have a chat on the phone if you wish.
 
Hello Jimmy,

Converting to use 1/4 psi natural gas is easy as long as you are using a forced air forge. The smallest oriface size should be 3/8th of an inch. Use a 1/4" ball valve to regulate gas flow instead of a needle valve. You can search Bladeforums for a few posts i've made on this topic over the years (here's one more recent http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/934512-Table-Forge-with-Ribbon-Burner ) or you can go to my website www.flemingknives.com and click on shop tour. Clicking on either the picture of my vertical forge or my table forge will get you more details regarding NG. Shoot me a PM if you need more details and we can have a chat on the phone if you wish.

I really like that setup. Unfortunately I no longer have the ability to weld in my shop. Burglar's stole my plasma cutter, mig, and welding leads on my tig set up, as well as all my hand tools. It could have been worse. I had some new grinders still in the box they could have walked off. But other than the burner everything else looks like I can pick up locally in town or buy. A tool cart would make a great stand and make it portable.

If you don't mind what size blower and model are you using? You mentioned two levels high and low on your forge, how is the natural gas plumbed into to accomadate this? I'm trying to get to the hammer in at Tulare this weekend. Will you be there? Take care and thanks.
 
We had a family friend that had half of his house explode from a couple of full bbq tanks that he kept in the garage. Very thankfully everyone survived the blast and subsequent fire.

It's a good law!
 
Hello Jimmy,

Converting to use 1/4 psi natural gas is easy as long as you are using a forced air forge. The smallest oriface size should be 3/8th of an inch. Use a 1/4" ball valve to regulate gas flow instead of a needle valve. You can search Bladeforums for a few posts i've made on this topic over the years (here's one more recent http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/934512-Table-Forge-with-Ribbon-Burner ) or you can go to my website www.flemingknives.com and click on shop tour. Clicking on either the picture of my vertical forge or my table forge will get you more details regarding NG. Shoot me a PM if you need more details and we can have a chat on the phone if you wish.


I have a question regarding this info.

Why use a 1/4" ball valve if you're finishing off with a 3/8" or larger orifice?
 
What he is saying is the low pressure NG flow needs more volume flow, and a 1/4" ball valve will work fine. All you need to do is somewhat regulate the flow. With LP gas a small orifice 1/4" needle valve is used, but as I said, that degree of pressure control is not needed for running NG.
 
I have a 350 gallon propane tank outside the shop.

But the fire department doesn't know or care about it. I don't think we have building inspectors out here in the woods either? Have never seen one?
 
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