does Bushcraft mean hacking away and stripping away green vegetation?

U

ukknifer

Joined
Jan 30, 2010
Messages
424
Hi All

I apologise in advance if my post sounds preachy or moralistic. I don't mean to lecture.

However, I see allot of vids on youtube and pictures on survival forums where people hack away green trees and vegetation in the name of bushcraft and survival.

This would be fine in a real survival situation or in a training learning situation but (In my opinion) its not if its a hobby you do every week. I also don't think it should be accepted in the forums and encouraged.

I don't need to build a shelter (of green) every week I go out in the woods. If we all do that, there will be no more bush to bushcraft in.

Hope this doe not upset anyone.
 
In theory I think you are right, but in practice there are many other factors to consider. Hacking down a hundred year old oak tree to practice some skills would be bad. Collecting green vegetation from different locations will not harm anything and in fact will do some good. It's the same as trimming plants around your yard, it keeps them healthy and growing stronger.

It makes me much angrier finding all sorts of broken bottles and other trash in the woods. That is much more common, and is way more dangerous and destructive. It never ceases to amaze me every time I go for a hike, even off the beaten path, that some idiot has been there before me and left a 12 packs worth of broken bottles. (sorry for the off topic rant there)
 
Yup... there is no need to drop a green tree unless it is about to fall on your home (or clearing out space for your yard.. etc..) or unless you really are in an emergency and need to build a shelter.. otherwise let the woods be. One can just practice on the dead stuff laying everywhere. But if its all your own land then I guess you can do what ever you want to, raze it if you like, because I sure as hell wouldn't want anyone lecturing me on what I could do on my land..
 
Unfortunatly, it sometimes seems that way.

I know that there has been times that the better half and I have went walking around the woods in a local state park, and come across a nice little clearing where every sapling has been hacked off a foot above ground, and the remains of a lean-to or debris hut is there. Somebody with a sharp toy had to play.

It gets a little maddening, especially when you realize that with a $1.99 disposable plastic drop cloth from Walmarts paint section, and a few feet of jute twine, they could make a far better shelter in 5 minutes than with the wonder knife they just bought.

There's survival, then there's just useless destruction of the woods.
 
I don't like to see useless destruction of natural areas either but in the grand scheme of things it's just a drop in the bucket compared to the destruction done with bulldozers at new building sites. Around here they bulldoze acres at a time leaving them devoid of all trees, then go back in after construction and plant a few small poor choices for landscaping that may or may not live.

If you really want to make a difference, plant decent plants (trees, shrubs, and non-woody perennials) in urban environments, or anywhere vegetation is absent.
 
When Riley and I did our overnight PSK trip, we did take down about 6 small hemlock trees. The rest of the green Hemlock bows were timmed off of larger hemlock trees here and there. We needed to make a suitable shelter to sleep in, so it was a little more than playing in our case. So I agree that hacking a bunch of green trees just because you can isn't right, but if you are using them and not taking out a forest I have no issue with it.
If your woodscraft projuct requires taking a small sapling, I don't see a problem with that either. However, I think if dead wood can be used it, it should be used.
 
ukknifer said:
This would be fine in a real survival situation or in a training learning situation but (In my opinion) its not if its a hobby you do every week. I also don't think it should be accepted in the forums and encouraged.
Click to expand...
This is a subject which I think falls into the catagory of "it depends".

Certainly, there are places and times where "bushcraft" is a totally unacceptable way to camp; where traffic is too high and/or the growing conditions are too severe to sustain the activity. National parks, popular hiking trails, desert, alpine or tundra enviroments are all examples of where not to practice "bushcraft"

On the other hand, there are still plenty of places where "bushcraft" is an acceptable activity; where the traffic is low enough, and the growing conditions favorable enough, that any "damage" done will recover before the next camper uses that spot.

Its our responsibility to know which is which, and to err on the side of caution on not damage the environment when we are not sure.
 
ukknifer said:
Hi All

I apologise in advance if my post sounds preachy or moralistic. I don't mean to lecture.

However, I see allot of vids on youtube and pictures on survival forums where people hack away green trees and vegetation in the name of bushcraft and survival.

This would be fine in a real survival situation or in a training learning situation but (In my opinion) its not if its a hobby you do every week. I also don't think it should be accepted in the forums and encouraged.

I don't need to build a shelter (of green) every week I go out in the woods. If we all do that, there will be no more bush to bushcraft in.

Hope this doe not upset anyone.
Click to expand...

ukknifer -

I am going to make an assumption (which is always dangerous) that you are in the UK. If you have never been to the US you might be surprised at magnitude of the undergrowth and forest available to many (although not all) of us here.

While I am not in favor of hacking down tracks of land or large trees just so we can build a weekend shelter, much of what I "hack at" is undergrowth that grows very quickly and removing it can actually benefit the forest environment. To much undergrowth can hamper the growth of the trees and vegetation that we appreciate. There is also a massive amount of non-native vegetation that is destroying our natural woodlands.

Hacking out undergrowth and taking small trees is not always a bad thing as long as you understand what you should and shouldn't take and it's done in moderation.

My goal is to be a "good steward" of our natural resources not to waste it or protect it to the point of not utilizing it.

Just some thoughts that may or may not apply to your situation or philosophy.
 
When I'm out playing on my own I only use deadfall, but if I'm teaching a wilderness survival class I'll take down a few select saplings, and usually ones that are directly on the logging roads I sometimes teach on as these will be knocked down as soon as the logging trucks arrive to harvest the big trees.

As long as you're judicious about it and choose thickly crowded saplings, suckers from larger trees that are going to damage the large tree in the long run, ones that will be naturally destroyed once vehicles, water or snow arrives, etc., then I have no problem with it.

When I used to practice all the time I would usually choose a logging area and would take my branches from the trees that were about to be knocked down or were already knocked down, so I was doing them a favor by stripping some of the branches for them (thus saving them whole seconds of effort that they're able to accomplish with their machinery).

Be smart about it and leave something for our kids.
 
While I love to chop things up, I do it to dead trees, or trees that were going to be cleared for one reason or another anyway. The only living thing that goes are the weeds/greens that overtake trails I have already intact. Overgrowth is also trimmed away if it gets to much of a hassle to deal with.
 
does Bushcraft mean hacking away and stripping away green vegetation?

NO!

Many people you see are doing it when they are cleaning areas around their home, yes you do get your occasional rambo nutter that goes mad and do not think about consequences. That is one thing bushcraft teaches you. Everything has consequences.

I can be seen cutting down hundreds of sekelbush on the farm, but that needs to be done for management. Nothing can eat it fast enough to keep it from encroaching into areas. If that’s not done the farm would become inhabitable for man and animal. It is part of the management that needs to be done to protect other savannah areas that are now critical endangered due to improper environmental and farm management of the past. I do not consider this bushcraft!

Experience everything, leave nothing but footprints and take home memories.
 
Meh, we're humans; we chop up the world to remake it in a more comfortable image.:D
Not really joking either...it's just what we do.
To me, the laughable part is when people drive their gas-guzzling SUV's hundreds of miles to get to an area, then pat themselves on the back for "leaving no trace."
 
Recently I was in a pawpaw growth. Too many units in too little of a space. Lots of long straight saplings. I cut a six of them down , just for walking sticks. Left four at the trail head.
 
Almost all of my "bush-whacking" is done on stuff I planted twenty years ago to minimized erosion and to provide habitat for birds. It has grown out of control and needs to be cleaned up,.... which I am doing,.... a little at a time,.... every time I get a new knife.:o
 
jackknife said:
Unfortunatly, it sometimes seems that way.

I know that there has been times that the better half and I have went walking around the woods in a local state park, and come across a nice little clearing where every sapling has been hacked off a foot above ground, and the remains of a lean-to or debris hut is there. Somebody with a sharp toy had to play.

It gets a little maddening, especially when you realize that with a $1.99 disposable plastic drop cloth from Walmarts paint section, and a few feet of jute twine, they could make a far better shelter in 5 minutes than with the wonder knife they just bought.

There's survival, then there's just useless destruction of the woods.
Click to expand...
Well said and true enough. I see it in my "own" state park.
tonym said:
When Riley and I did our overnight PSK trip, we did take down about 6 small hemlock trees. The rest of the green Hemlock bows were timmed off of larger hemlock trees here and there. We needed to make a suitable shelter to sleep in, so it was a little more than playing in our case. So I agree that hacking a bunch of green trees just because you can isn't right, but if you are using them and not taking out a forest I have no issue with it.
If your woodscraft projuct requires taking a small sapling, I don't see a problem with that either. However, I think if dead wood can be used it, it should be used.
Click to expand...
I don't know where you guys were, and I'm not casting any stones, but AFAIK, cutting green trees and vegetation in NY State Parks & Forests is illegal. As are permanent treestands...but that's another story...


As to the OP, there is a fine line of use and overuse.
Reading "Camping in the Old Style" one sees how much the forest was overused.
I'd say if one is on one's own land, one could do as one pleases.
On public land one must think of the greater good & the laws governing them.
 
Ebbtide said:
Well said and true enough. I see it in my "own" state park.

I don't know where you guys were, and I'm not casting any stones, but AFAIK, cutting green trees and vegetation in NY State Parks & Forests is illegal. As are permanent treestands...but that's another story...


As to the OP, there is a fine line of use and overuse.
Reading "Camping in the Old Style" one sees how much the forest was overused.
I'd say if one is on one's own land, one could do as one pleases.
On public land one must think of the greater good & the laws governing them.
Click to expand...

I believe they were in CT.
 
Harvesting a few select saplings or pine boughs won't harm anything.
Most trees die from over competition, and freeing up some space by felling green wood can sometimes be the right thing to do.
 
If for some reason you need to remove branches from a tree, then using a saw is better than a knife or axe. I think the clean cut means it will heal better with less chance of infection setting in.
 
My state is right at 70% forest. Over 23 million acres of pine and hardwood mix. Last I read, the regrowth rates for those pine and hardwoods are ~20 and 30% higher than the removal rates, respectively, but I still hear about how "if we're not careful, we're going to run out of trees" from people who live here. Clueless idiots.
 
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