does Bushcraft mean hacking away and stripping away green vegetation?

I try to minimize my impact, and I only burn fallen or dead wood in my fires. I tend keep my cutting limited to what is necessary for trail maintenance. In my opinion, incorporating some green wood into bushcrafting practice is fine, so long as it is occasional and limited in scope.

There are some otherwise gorgeous campsites along the shores of Maple Leaf and Maggie Lakes in Algonquin Park, where careless hikers have gone and hacked away the lower branches of all of the nearby trees, harvested all of the saplings, and otherwise created a radius of destruction around the camp area. Most of them probably just couldn't be bothered to wander around for the ten or fifteen minutes it takes to gather some deadfall. Others probably did gather wood, but not enough of it, and decided to have a go at the nearby trees in order to keep the campfire burning all night. The end result is ugly, unnecessary, and ultimately detrimental to camping. It reflects a certain lack of respect.

Now, I could point out that these sites occupy a very small amount of space in the midst of a huge park that is covered in forests. In the grand scheme of things, the sort of undisciplined hacking that I'm talking about will have a negligible impact on those forests. But that doesn't mean that it is insignificant or excusable behaviour. It certainly isn't the sort of behaviour that I would hope to teach the next generation of W&SS enthusiasts.

All the best,

- Mike
 
Common sense says you should not do things that are overtly destructive. Equally, common sense says that you should not refrain from doing things that are not destructive. So it all depends on circumstances.
 
I practice a low impact style of playing in the woods. If I am working on something and I need greenery, I take greenery. If deadwood or dropwood will do, I take deadwood/dropwood. Here's the thing, I let my own land grow as it may in a small area, so I have woods to play in at home. I got to the Smokies and greencut, I get my ass fined, and believe me, in the park, you will get fined. In the National forest, not so much its still illegal, but loosely enforced.

I say be prudent in your greencutting, but don't pass on the oportunity to work with green materials if thats what you choose.

PS Ballistol sprayed on cuts from branching and tearing bark keeps the rot and bugs away. Just a little shinfo. Moose
 
ukknifer said:
Hi All

I apologise in advance if my post sounds preachy or moralistic. I don't mean to lecture.

However, I see allot of vids on youtube and pictures on survival forums where people hack away green trees and vegetation in the name of bushcraft and survival.

This would be fine in a real survival situation or in a training learning situation but (In my opinion) its not if its a hobby you do every week. I also don't think it should be accepted in the forums and encouraged.

I don't need to build a shelter (of green) every week I go out in the woods. If we all do that, there will be no more bush to bushcraft in.

Hope this does not upset anyone.
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I hope this does not upset you.

I commend you for this consideration as wherever there is a bit of wilderness, lies a priceless treasure to be protected. I imagine in the UK, it is a far rarer commodity than over here.

However I feel the wording in your post and therefore perhaps your sentiments about it are a little askew. I don't know and can't imagine anyone I know or here on these forums or even who post videos on YouTube, apart from maybe some misguided youth, that don't have an appreciation or even a reverence for the wilds. The notion of building a new shelter every week and "Hacking away" implies a bit of recklessness, sounds sensationalistic and is not at all a realistic description of folks that I know who are into bushcraft.

I think you're letting a few bad apples ruin your impression of the whole responsibly harvested raw materials barrel.
 
Marcelo Cantu said:
The notion of building a new shelter every week and "Hacking away" implies a bit of recklessness, sounds sensationalistic and is not at all a realistic description of folks that I know who are into bushcraft.
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True enough.
Even I don't go build a shelter again and again.
I WILL cut down enough trees to build a shelter which lasts though.:)
The shelter I built for the ESEE contest is now the prefered camp site for my step-brother, and I hope to get time to camp more at it.
I dare say that barring morons tearing it down, it will be there for a considerable length of time.
Cutting down all the trees I did in making it also helped clear a no-burn zone; forest fires are a tad more destructive of the forest than me cutting down some saplings.
 
A couple things come to mind for me in this thread...

In some cases you can harvest a tree and improve the environment. One example is in the collection of a bow stave. A good tree for a bow will be from a tree that has been supressed; usually due to a lack of sunlight. That tree be stronger as it will have tighter growth rings because of the slower growth. There is also a higher probability with a supressed tree that it will be prone to disease and insect infestations. Not to mention it is using resources from the healthier trees around it. Thinning this tree can be both useful and good for the environment.

When harvesting a branch, due so in a manner that the tree will not hold moisture or ripping off additional bark. Remove the branch in a place that the wound will get sunlight to minimize pathogens such as fungus.

When foraging, only take the fourth plant as not to deplete the resource. The first is left to seed. The second for wildlife. The third for someone else who maybe in immediate need. The fourth for you.
 
Nope, it doesn't.

All my carvings is done on dead wood. All my firewood is dead wood (funny that is burns better than green :) ).
If I use a hand drill or bow drill, these are made from dead wood.
If I gather natural tinder, I only take a little from each tree.
If I gather native foods, I only take a little from each tree/ plant.
I have a small fire that doesn't completely denude the spot of wood. It gives the next people something to burn and provides homes for all the insects.
All my rope and cordage is made of bark from dead trees.
Caves make much better shelters than lean-tos!

I try to have as little impact as possible to keep it looking the way I like it- untouched.

This will sound self righteous, but people hacking away just for the sake of it isn't bushcraft. Generally, destructive and unskilled go hand in hand.
 
Come on over to my place...the damn vegetation is in full attack in the spring/summer...I can't cut it back fast enough:eek:

Your location really depends on your sentiments. Some places in the US, any vegetation is extremely important to the environment. In other places, you practically have to do controlled burns to clear out the dense underbrush to keep the area "healthy".

There are a few idiots that will cut down areas right off the trail or in more scenic areas...those people are jackasses. Yes, private and public land is a factor and even with my land, I still respect and manage what I own. I will on occasion do selective cutting...since it's management, I might as well incorporate training as well.

For the most part, I wouldn't cut saplings if there were just a few, but if there is a ton of them, you can selectively cut a few that doesn't create an eye-sore or impact the immediate environment. As mentioned, some states are doing exceptionally well at forest management and most "environmentalists" don't have a clue. I would add that wildlife management is also very effective and game species have dramatically increased to the point that hunting limits are being expanded.

I remember reading a post from kgd about some ecology classes he teaches at a university. Several ecology students had never did any type of backpacking or camping or staying outdoors. I can only comment on my experiences, but growing up in WA State, the majority of tree-hugging environmentalists couldn't even tell you a backpacking trail in the area.

I will say that true WSS members and those in the survival school or bushcraft circles are excellent stewards of the outdoors where they selectively use natural resources, leave little to no trace and have more respect for the outdoors, foliage and fauna, than the majority of self-proclaimed environmentalist. There is a percentage, and I don't think it's that big, of idiots that do not respect anything outdoors...we are here (IMHO) as stewards and we should enjoy it as much as we care for it. For those that know anything about the logging business, selective clear cutting, while ugly to the eye, is very healthy for most coniferous and deciduous forests.

I don't condemn your concern, but I think educating yourself on the different regions, who really manages the forests, swamps, lakes, rivers, mountains, etc., with actions vice protests would surprise you.

ROCK6
 
As ya from the UK I'm guessing that your jealous cos your not allowed to carry anything large enough to chop with, those non-locking SAK's just don't cut it eh !:p

Only messin buddy, I think we should all consider the impact on the wilderness with whatever we do but at the same time it's no good just reading about certain skills and hoping you can do them when the SHTF. Practice the skills but use common sense !
 
I've been practicing bushcraft for several years. and wager to say that I get out to practice more than the averag bear...I;ve built numerous shelters out of natural material.. but can probably count on one hand the amount of times I;ve cut a live tree.
I think wanton or wasteful destruction is uncalled for.. but judicial use of resources.. is an aspect of bushcraft that practicioners need to learn to balance wisely...
in spirit I agree with the message you are trying to say.. but your delivery can use some work.
I will add when I see people post allot of arbitrary topics.. and not really contribute anything in terms of say demonstrating a skill or sharing pics of an outing.. I can't help but group them into the category of armchair survivalist, "hope that doesn't offend anybody"
 
A little common sense goes a long way when cutting.

Most forests around me are choked with dogwood bushes, ivy and other types of vines and other growth that are invasive. A little management here and there helps a lot. My county asks for volunteers every weekend November thru March to help manage areas. They will even permit you to work on your own after you demonstrate you know what your doing.

Here's a picture of an small area that has been cleared over that last year. This was done by a single volunteer over the course of a year. Before it was done, you couldn't step 1 foot off the trail or even see thru the brush. The tall trees are much healthier now and the ground growth that is natural for my region is returning.
A whole lot of green stuff was cut out here and burned.

DSC00052-2.jpg


State and local government seem to be the ones that leave the biggest footprint.

One place I hike went from this
29223_1446609211224_1412982552_3119.jpg


To this, just to put up a useless fence.
DSC00018-7.jpg


On another note, on some recent hikes I checked some of my fire-pits from the last few years and can't even see where they were. No char spots to be seen.
 
Ahhh yes, lets all get morally indignant about perceived trends in unspecified videos.
 
Why would you say this - anything I have ever read or seen or heard about about bushcraft stresses the custodianship of the forest, and its care

If somebody wants to randomly cut down trees that just doesn't sound like bushcraft, and all sorts of people do all sorts of abberant things in the name of a cause that argues soemthing else.

(must add that I am not really musch of a fan of bushcraft - - I go camping - involves all sorts of non bushcraft things :D :D)
 
Personally, I have never been out in the woods and thought that "bushcrafters" were stripping away too much foliage. That is just my experience in my area, but I imagine that it is true in most places. Seeing green branches being used therefore doesn't bother me. Just one guy's opinion though.
 
let me clarify my last post a bit... as i am as a much of a armchair specialist as anyone... But I found the way the op was phrased to be purposely inflammatory,
and I feel that the of posting arbitrary threads is unproductive and can be done by any body with an attitude and a computer.. posting a positive contribution to the community however that's what I like to read, and why I come here... Those are the posts we all can learn from.
 
RescueRiley said:
let me clarify my last post a bit... as i am as a much of a armchair specialist as anyone... But I found the way the op was phrased to be purposely inflammatory,
and I feel that the of posting arbitrary threads is unproductive and can be done by any body with an attitude and a computer.. posting a positive contribution to the community however that's what I like to read, and why I come here... Those are the posts we all can learn from.
Click to expand...

Your no more an armchair specialist than I am Riley. We actually get ' out there ' be proud of the fact brother !!!;):thumbup:
 
I wish all people were as aware about the natural environment as people on this forum!
 
I don't have a problem with practicing your skills in the woods. Frankly, one section of timber clear cutting does more 'damage' to the forest than a years worth of our puttering around in the bush.
Proposing to have an individual's preference set the standard for allowing or not allowing posts on a subject is, well, kind of Orwellian...........
 
As has been stated, a bit of judicious tree removal can be quite beneficial to the health of the forest. It would behoove any bushcrafter to learn a bit about trees to that end. What also has to be taken in to account is the type of vegetataion to be gathered and its growth rate. Where I live in Eastern Maine, we are one of the leading producers of balsam fir wreaths. All material for these wreaths is gathered by hand from the wild (probably in the hundreds of tons), every year. The trick is to only take a limited amount of brush from each tree. This has the same effect as pruning, enhancing growth for the following year. Obviously the best course of action is to practice these skills either on your own property or where one has been given permission.
 
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