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Does buying knives through the forums hurt dealers and the manufacturers?
- Thread starter alex1577
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- Oct 3, 2012
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I agree... I don't think it hurts the manufacturers as it's just another venue of sale for them. As far as the distributors, almost all of my "production" purchases have been linked through here... so again no... Well no if they're here making their presents known. If they're not, I think they're hurting themselves.
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The secondary market is hardly a new concept. Knives, guns, cars, exercise equipment, houses, electronics, powertools, clothing, furniture, livestock, etc. Worrying about the manufacturers/dealers doesn't really apply. Or rather, it does apply, but it's all part of the game, always has been, and always will be.
No. If someone buys a knife through the forums here, chances are good they weren't willing to buy it through the dealers/manufacturers anyway, or weren't able to find a dealer that carried it. BUT, if they turn out to like the knife, they might decide to try something else from the same company later on, and buy THAT knife through a regular dealer now that they know the product is worth it.
+1 The forums here in some ways are like ebay for knife nuts.
+1 Sums it up.
Once the manufacturer sells it to the dealers, they've already made their money. How it's sold (by dealers) or re-sold (secondary market) afterwards wouldn't directly affect their revenue.
As for the impact of secondary market sales on dealers, that's a bit more difficult to answer. On one hand, the dealer isn't getting anything from those sales, but on the same note, there might be less of a demand with the absence of a secondary market. Some people may be less hesitant to pick up a knife to try out if they have a reasonable expectation that if they don't like it, there are options to re-sell it to get some/most of their money back.
As for the impact of secondary market sales on dealers, that's a bit more difficult to answer. On one hand, the dealer isn't getting anything from those sales, but on the same note, there might be less of a demand with the absence of a secondary market. Some people may be less hesitant to pick up a knife to try out if they have a reasonable expectation that if they don't like it, there are options to re-sell it to get some/most of their money back.
Locutus D'Borg
Platinum Member
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I do both, like most people. The big advantage to buying from a dealer is that they usually have a return policy, something that is strongly frowned upon in forum sales. Most dealers will allow you to return a knife for any reason within 3 days. But you pay a premium for that privilege.
For a fairly new collector like myself, and one who has limited opportunity to try out knives, buying from a dealer is a viable albeit more expensive option. But there are some really good deals on the forum. I'm starting to feel more comfortable buying from fellow members.
For a fairly new collector like myself, and one who has limited opportunity to try out knives, buying from a dealer is a viable albeit more expensive option. But there are some really good deals on the forum. I'm starting to feel more comfortable buying from fellow members.
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- Apr 4, 2007
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- 8,578
For the company that never evolves or companies that start out strong and then quality takes a dive then yes second hand buying and selling does affect their business. Many makers will tell you their toughest competition are their own knives when they started entering the market. It seems that even if a companies products continue to get better their original work in many cases will always command a premium for various reasons. Then there are other companies that start off really strong, take a big dive in quality and then eventually plain out but usually by that point the company never regains the glory of their past products. In fact I can only think of a handful of companies that this has happened to and manage to not take a hit in their popularity These makers tend to have very unique products and develop a cult following.
No matter what though the secondary market cant be viewed as a negative. Sure it would appear every maker and company producing knives would sell more new if no one bought or sold on the second hand market because they would have no other choice right? And every maker wants to see their new products sell instead of their past work. But, its not really that black and white. Many collectors get into collecting by testing the waters with second hand purchases because they dont want to commit to the higher prices of buying new. And without the second hand market for people to cut their teeth on no one really knows if they would ever take the plunge on an expensive knife sight unseen. This is why I dont think its wise for any knife company to get to comfortable. Sure some of them can survive doing the AC/DC thing pumping out the same thing for decades. But thats an exception not the rule. I think makers should always strive to better their products. Because the originals will be collectable for being unique and hard to come by as well as being a tangible piece of history for that given maker but it will also ensure their new work is desirable for being an improvement of what they have all ready done. But it takes a truly talented knife maker to know what is really an improvement, and what is simply change for the sake of change.
A good way that makers could benefit from the used market and harness it to their advantage would be to follow what the car dealerships used. Offer a trade in policy and then sell certified pre owned reconditioned knives. The knife in some cases could be updated or refurbished and the maker could make money on the knife twice. But just like anything there would be positives and negatives to taking on such a task. Some makers simply want the past to stay the past. They are in the business of making knives, not reconditioning them. I can understand both sides.
No matter what though the secondary market cant be viewed as a negative. Sure it would appear every maker and company producing knives would sell more new if no one bought or sold on the second hand market because they would have no other choice right? And every maker wants to see their new products sell instead of their past work. But, its not really that black and white. Many collectors get into collecting by testing the waters with second hand purchases because they dont want to commit to the higher prices of buying new. And without the second hand market for people to cut their teeth on no one really knows if they would ever take the plunge on an expensive knife sight unseen. This is why I dont think its wise for any knife company to get to comfortable. Sure some of them can survive doing the AC/DC thing pumping out the same thing for decades. But thats an exception not the rule. I think makers should always strive to better their products. Because the originals will be collectable for being unique and hard to come by as well as being a tangible piece of history for that given maker but it will also ensure their new work is desirable for being an improvement of what they have all ready done. But it takes a truly talented knife maker to know what is really an improvement, and what is simply change for the sake of change.
A good way that makers could benefit from the used market and harness it to their advantage would be to follow what the car dealerships used. Offer a trade in policy and then sell certified pre owned reconditioned knives. The knife in some cases could be updated or refurbished and the maker could make money on the knife twice. But just like anything there would be positives and negatives to taking on such a task. Some makers simply want the past to stay the past. They are in the business of making knives, not reconditioning them. I can understand both sides.
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Sonnydaze
Gold Member
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I agree. Buying a used car doesn't hurt the new car dealer.
Absolutely correct, and that was the analogy I was going to use as well.
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Besides the free publicity the forums offer if I buy a knife here at a discounted price and I really like it I will end up buying a lot more knives from the company.
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well this isnt cut and dry either. In most cases the sale of a used car wont have an effect on a new one because most people think that anyone searching for a used car is trying to save money and that there is no loss for the new car salesman because they arent shopping in the same category. Not always true though. Lets say customer X goes into a Lexus dealership looking to buy a 2013 model and finds a car close to what they were looking for but not quite. They go home to think about it and on the way they spot the exact car they are looking for that is at a competing dealership for a different manufacturer. The car was a demo and has only a few thousand miles on it. Full warranty and has all the options they are looking for. The original dealership misses out on a new car sale considering there is something so close available. I dont think 1990s buck knives have an impact on the sale of new ones, but in some cases with more desirable brands, ive often thought why buy new if there is a mint condition used model that is identical to what I want.
I don't think so.
My prime example would be my Emerson experience. I never liked an Emerson until I owned one. Thought they looked too tactical and weren'tvery eexciting. But I got a really good deal on a used one from another forum. Loved it.
I now own a dozen or so and about half were acquired from dealers and one from Emerson directly.
Same with Chris Reeve eventually. Ive owned a few from the forums and I plan to order one directly from CRK some day.
My prime example would be my Emerson experience. I never liked an Emerson until I owned one. Thought they looked too tactical and weren'tvery eexciting. But I got a really good deal on a used one from another forum. Loved it.
I now own a dozen or so and about half were acquired from dealers and one from Emerson directly.
Same with Chris Reeve eventually. Ive owned a few from the forums and I plan to order one directly from CRK some day.