Does D2 make a good chopper ?

I do not think D2 is a good choice for a chopper and would not personally use a D2 blade for that.

From my experience, the production knives with D2 that I have used are not exceptionally tough and do not have a level of toughness that I would be comfortable splitting wood with or hitting the spine with a hammer given a catastrophic failure can have catastrophic results. (With that said, many custom knives with D2 are very tough and I've used far more production D2 than anything else, so I can only speak to that topic to a limited degree.)

But I do think it is still a better choice than 154CM, which IMO is not at all a good match for a large or very large knife that is going to see the type of usage you are describing. I've broken a 154CM blade batoning, and the piece that broke off went flying at 100000000 MPH (thank God no one was in its path, because if it hit someone, it could have killed them). I chalked it up as a learning lesson and it has led me to believe that the steel chosen for that type of usage should have notable impact toughness and strength. Since then, I've used mainly A2 (and sometimes good 1095) blades for that kind of work, and more recently 3V.

I have used A2 quite a lot and I find it to be much, much, much, much tougher than D2. The primary tradeoff with A2 is of course poor wear resistance compared to D2's good wear resistance. A2 is also worlds easier to field sharpen. In addition to A2, 5160, O1, and L6 are also steels that are popular picks for larger choppers. More or less, they strongly favor toughness over wear resistance and are much tougher steels than those commonly used on folding knives (where toughness is of lesser concern). Especially if you baton through a piece of wood and hit something like a small rock after the blade passes through the wood, these steels will really show their value and how the added toughness can be an added margin of safety as well.

If price isn't a big deal, IMO the steel to get is CPM-3V. In addition to being tougher than A2 and the other steels listed above, it also holds an edge better than many of the 154CM and D2 knives I own. If price is a factor, Ontario makes the RTAK and RTAK II in 5160 for well under $100, and the RTAK was born to chop and baton. And to me personally, I look at the $90 as a very small price relative to what could happen if a blade with less toughness fails during that type of usage.
 
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Bob Dozier designed the KS-7 Wilderness Knife as his "survival knife". The quote below is from the description of the knife on his web site. He used thicker steel and a thicker edge to offset toughness issues.

With these things in mind, I have used .200 thick D2 blade steel and have left the edge thicker than I normally do. It is ground to have edge-holding ability for heavy cutting and chopping situations. The handle is longer than I usually put on a knife, for comfort and grip in extended use, and will accommodate even the largest hands. It is hand ground, heat treated and finished in my shop, using my time-tested methods. Be assured that the Wilderness Knife measures up to my other knives, on which my reputation is built.
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So, Bob chose thicker har steel and a thicker edge to increase the toughness... My take is that I would not personally do heavy batonning with a Dozier custom in D2. But I wouldn't have a problem with some general batonning, but not pounding one of his knives through a 6" log to split it. I don't want to chip a Dozier custom, so I would choose to not use them for heavy chopping tasks routinely.
 
Guys ; please explain some thing to me ; as the chart shows that CPM 154 is tougher and more wear resistant than D2 ; wouldn't that make it superior to D2 ? I mean the increased toughness is obviously an advantage for chopping; yes ?
 
carbonsteelfan said:
Guys ; please explain some thing to me ; as the chart shows that CPM 154 is tougher and more wear resistant than D2 ; wouldn't that make it superior to D2 ? I mean the increased toughness is obviously an advantage for chopping; yes ?
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It does but if I remember correctly u where talking about 154cm before not cpm154 big difference:D
 
I am very sorry. I meant 154 CM. Some times l confuse it with CPM 154. Any way as l understand it ; 154 CM is definitely NOT a suitable choice for a large fixed blade knife for chopping. D2 is not the best for the job but certainly better than 154CM ( especially with a thick edge ) . Did l get it right ?
 
Post #21 has the comparison of 154cm & D2: practically identical toughness.
154cm is rarely made into a thick bladed chopper, usually thin bladed slicers. D2, on the other hand, is often used in thick bladed knives.
 
Don't put too much emphasis on those charts. Also, FWIW, I wouldn't choose A2 for a chopper either. I know there are a few made of it, and even some swords, but I personally wouldn't want a steel with more carbon than 1080 for a chopper.
 
I've had a Kershaw Outcast with D2 for years and I've beat the hell out of it to include quite a bit of chopping and batoning. This is the knife that started my loving D2.
 
me2 said:
Don't put too much emphasis on those charts. Also, FWIW, I wouldn't choose A2 for a chopper either. I know there are a few made of it, and even some swords, but I personally wouldn't want a steel with more carbon than 1080 for a chopper.
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I have a few large knives in A2 and personally think it's performs well when used in this fashion given it is tough and easy to sharpen.

With that said, if the user can swing the price, because quite a few custom makers are offering CPM-3V, A2 is not nearly attractive of a steel as before 3V. As 3V has better toughness, better wear resistance, and better corrosion resistance, it's a very attractive option compared to some of the older tool steels with great toughness but less-than-ideal wear resistance. Many of the A2 knives I had/have were purchased at a time when 3V wasn't even on the table. If I bought many of these same knives today, I would probably opt for 3V.

I think most users looking for a larger fixed blade will be blown away by 3V's performance and quickly know it is a fantastic match for their application. The insane toughness is the WOW factor commonly associated with the knife, but the other impressive aspect is how well it holds an edge compared to most of the other super tough steels being used for those kinds of knives. I think that the difference in edge-holding between the A2 vs 3V I have used is as pronounced as 154CM vs M390...very pronounced!
 
Which kind of wear resistance was used when comparing 3V and A2? What kind of blade geometry was used on the satisfactory A2 blades?
 
Okay ; thanks guys. I know that D2 is comparitively tougher than 154CM. But could some one please tell.me if D2 is tougher ( relatively) than 440c ? I know that D2 has a rock well hardness of RC60-61. But in 440c it is RC56-57. I know that D2 holds the better edge but.which is stronger for chopping ? Okay ; neither are the best but which of the two would.you pick a large knife used for chopping ?
 
Hardness =/=toughness. And D2 doesn't "have a hardness of 60-61" Hardness is not an inherent characteristic of a steel, it depends on the HT and tempering process.
440C can be easily hardened higher than 56-57, and D2 lower than that if you wanted.

And I would say that D2 is tougher than 440C, at least in my experience.
 
C_Becker said:
Hardness =/=toughness. And D2 doesn't "have a hardness of 60-61" Hardness is not an inherent characteristic of a steel, it depends on the HT and tempering process.
440C can be easily hardened higher than 56-57, and D2 lower than that if you wanted.

And I would say that D2 is tougher than 440C, at least in my experience.
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But sir ; l was reading a book by some knife maker saying that 440c gets brittle at Rc60. So toughness is usually left at 56-57.
 
I have an Outcast too. It has chopped and batonned (and hit rocks in the process) with no significant damage. The Viper Carnera is on my immediate wishlist, and the Vox Rold has performed really good. Bottom line is, I have never had a problem chopping with a D2 blade, I really dig that steel. In these days of super steels coming out every week, I still favor classics like D2, 440C and AUS-8, good steels that when properly treated have great performance, are easy to maintain and sharpen and will not break your bank account.
 
carbonsteelfan said:
But sir ; l was reading a book by some knife maker saying that 440c gets brittle at Rc60. So toughness is usually left at 56-57.
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I stand corrected then regarding 440C, but still - two steels at the same hardness can be entirely different when it comes to toughness.
 
carbonsteelfan said:
Okay ; thanks guys. I know that D2 is comparitively tougher than 154CM. But could some one please tell.me if D2 is tougher ( relatively) than 440c ? I know that D2 has a rock well hardness of RC60-61. But in 440c it is RC56-57. I know that D2 holds the better edge but.which is stronger for chopping ? Okay ; neither are the best but which of the two would.you pick a large knife used for chopping ?
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I do not find D2, 154CM, and 440C as really different in terms of toughness. In terms of the discussion of toughness for use as a chopper, they are all more or less about the same and the differences in toughness is arguably going to translate more to the heat treatment and core design of the knife rather than which of those steels.


Not a huge difference in toughness between 154CM, 440C, and D2
cpm_s35v.jpg



The difference between D2 (and hence 154CM and 440C as well) versus many of the tool steels used on knives that will need to withstand impact
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I would not pick D2, 154CM, or 440C for chopping or batoning wood personally, as I think all of those steels are not appropriate and may be unnecessarily hazardous given for under $100 a much more suitable knife (or for even less, an inexpensive axe) can be purchased and that's a small price relative to the costs of catastrophic failure. Having had a knife break on me, I'm obviously a little overcautious. YMMV.
 
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