Does it annoy you when people call 1095Cro-Van 1095?

"Hand me a Kleenex."

"Oh look, a Pakistani Buck knife."

"My Dad carried a Camillus made Ka-bar."


IMO, right or wrong, 1095 has become sort of a generic replacement for carbon steel. I try to say just "carbon" but then somebody runs off and and asks if I'm talking about high carbon stainless. Whatever.

The question is, is it a distinction that makes a difference. Depends on the context. If we're in the Maintenance sub-forum discussing the finer points of sharpening, it *MIGHT* make a difference. Maybe. Otherwise?
 
It annoys me that some people think that miniscule additions of Vanadium and Chromium are going to yield big differences in performance. 1/4% Vanadium and 1/2% Chromium? Give me a break.
 
How much vanadium and chromium is actually added on the 1095CV?

CPM154 is called that way to say that it's made by crucible correct?
 
tiguy7 said:
It annoys me that some people think that miniscule additions of Vanadium and Chromium are going to yield big differences in performance. 1/4% Vanadium and 1/2% Chromium? Give me a break.
Click to expand...


I no longer think of steel performance strictly in terms of composition. IMO, composition determines the range of possibilities but not the end performance. That depends heavily on the manufacturer's proprietary heat treatment. Does 440A suck? Try the old Schrade USA Schrade+. Try comparing Bucks 420HC and Case's Tru-Sharp (also 420HC). Very different.
 
I'm no steel expert, but as some posters have said, isn't it just a very slightly altered version of 1095? Sort of like I don't say "honey, I'm going to the gas station to get some Ultra Low Sulpher Diesel". I just say I need some diesel. So, I guess that's a "no" vote, but to each his own:)
 
tiguy7 said:
It annoys me that some people think that miniscule additions of Vanadium and Chromium are going to yield big differences in performance. 1/4% Vanadium and 1/2% Chromium? Give me a break.
Click to expand...

I didn't drink the kool aid either. The way some people talk about it you'd think they were talking about 3v or infi.
 
Most people can't be bothered to keep up with the trivial minutae like this. And I can't blame them.

"CPM-154 & 154CM are two different steels. S30V & CPM-S30V are just different ways people refer to the same steel. But 420 & CPM-420V are way different steels & one of them has a new name & is also called CTS-20CP when a different company makes it. Got it, noob?"

A non-knife nerd has no chance. I just did a few seconds of digging & found this thread here: http: //www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/803294-1095-1095-CroVan

This post near the bottom was interesting:

"Knarfeng,

Here is the chemistry for Sharon Steel 0170-06 (From Sharon Steel ref.book)

C: 0.95-1.10; Mn:0.30-0.50; P:0.025max; S: 0.025max; Si:0.15-0.25; Cr:0.40-0.60; Ni:0.25; Mo:0.06; V:0.15-0.25.

This is also the formula for KA-BAR's 1095CV. If one orders enough steel a steel company will make what ever one wants. That is the case with both Cold Steel Carbon V and Case CV variations on 0179-06. Slight variations can be thought of as entirely different steels or just a variation. It's all good steel but it still must be processed properly.
Unless there was a radical change that I didn't know about, Camillus processed the Carbon V with a lead pot/oil quench using a traditional Austenizing/Quench/Temper process. Dan Maragni's strong point was fine tuning the temps, making sure the heat thermocouples were proper, heating medium was proper, quench oil had the proper additives. He was (is) very good at that.
I like Dan alot and I miss our great conversations when Cold Steel was at Ontario.
Hope this helps.



Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives "


According to this, 1095CroVan is basically 0170-06.
 
Put it this way. Chromium and Vanadium are good. 1095 CroVan has 1/4% Vanadium. CPM -S90-V has 9% Vanadium or 36 X as much as 1095 CroVan. ZDP-189 has 20% Chromium or 40 X as much as 1095 CroVan. So why are we excited about 1095 CroVan?
 
Nope. Kinda splitting hairs there. I know the difference, but if any regular Joe I talk to knows any steel designation at all I'm impressed.
 
Additives at that amount will probably be more for refining the grain structure (V), helping the hardening throughout (ch)( on thick blades as opposed to almost a case hardening with the inside lower hardness than the outside, or similar effects), de oxegenating and degassing the steel. I don't believe that there is enough to make carbides, or even get a secondary hardening effect but I sure could be wrong.

Powder steel process help with things like grain structure but running 60,000 lb melts in ingot form sometimes needs little tweaks to get things the way the metallurgists want . It's a pretty cool process.
 
Mastiff.

In Poland 1095CroVan is called ncv1. It is an old (at least 50 years old) tool steel, used mainly for woodworking tools, saws, chisels and so on.

In performance, it will be similar to 1095, there will be some more vanadium carbides, but i doesn't matter much.
It was an alloy designed for industry, a refined 1095(n9e in Poland), to make easier to work with. I can only guess what were the reasons. Maybe V was added to protect steel against grain growth while heating (easier production), maybe Cr was added to increase hardenability to be able to produce thicker full hardness tools or maybe this mix lowers size changes while quenching and tempering.

The performance of finished tool is not the most important factor :D
 
Nope, didnt bother me....., until now, so thanks:mad:

:D

Must admit, there are more important things to ponder.

How ever, it bothers me no end, that people dont know the true qualities of 'RASTA-FREI' and how superior it is to ALL other steels!!!
 
Yes. Accuracy in language is very important, and simple mistakes like that are why the internet is an unreliable source of information. I hate it almost as much as this:
flatface77 said:
This post near the bottom was interesting:

"Knarfeng,

Here is the chemistry for Sharon Steel 0170-06 (From Sharon Steel ref.book)

C: 0.95-1.10; Mn:0.30-0.50; P:0.025max; S: 0.025max; Si:0.15-0.25; Cr:0.40-0.60; Ni:0.25; Mo:0.06; V:0.15-0.25.

This is also the formula for KA-BAR's 1095CV. If one orders enough steel a steel company will make what ever one wants. That is the case with both Cold Steel Carbon V and Case CV variations on 0179-06. Slight variations can be thought of as entirely different steels or just a variation. It's all good steel but it still must be processed properly.
Unless there was a radical change that I didn't know about, Camillus processed the Carbon V with a lead pot/oil quench using a traditional Austenizing/Quench/Temper process. Dan Maragni's strong point was fine tuning the temps, making sure the heat thermocouples were proper, heating medium was proper, quench oil had the proper additives. He was (is) very good at that.
I like Dan alot and I miss our great conversations when Cold Steel was at Ontario.
Hope this helps.



Best Regards,

Paul Tsujimoto
Sr Eng
Prod Dev and Qual
KA-BAR Knives "


According to this, 1095CroVan is basically 0170-06.
Click to expand...

So which are we talking about? Are they the same thing? A typo like that from a senior engineer? :barf:

I believe there is someone floating around with the user name CPM154CM. All due respect, I want to punch them.
 
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