- Joined
- Oct 8, 1998
- Messages
- 8,917
Seth,
And thanks for the compliment.
For the record, I don't have a problem with the Concept of The Gunting, don't have a problem with letting someone go with their life although I don't want to see them again. And if it is a "Manhandling" situation, I don't have a problem with using The Gunting as it was intended.
When I have poured cold water on The Gunting in here, it was only to point out what I just did above, and to say, it's still a knife.
In many places, regardless of the intent of the design, it is going to be looked at as a knife. For a Civilian, this is not good. Because in situations where you can use it, primarily closed, you have drawn "Lethal Force" out of your pocket. Not only have you drawn it, you have used it. Just like pistol whipping someone...
For Law Enforcement, it's entirely different. They are allowed to brandish [firearm] if they even smell danger. This is a big difference between how an Armed Civilian conducts themselves in public and a LEO.
This is where LEOs have it good [one of the only places they have it "good" tactically speaking]. If they are in close proximity to you, they can order you not to move. They can lock you up if you don't listen. You make one move, they can draw.
[Remember, no shots fired, we're talking about producing the weapon]
The Civilian who has the Carry Permit, if he does that, he's in the jackpot. Because he was not confronted with anything that even smelled of "Lethal Force" just yet. He draws, he goes to jail, he has no more firearms or permit. "Brandishing."
The Civilian is held to a much higher standard of conduct when it comes to drawing the weapon. Any weapon. I have seen "Guns Out" on LEOs many, many times, it is nothing to see them with guns out. You drive by a traffic stop, the person inside the vehicle makes a wrong move, guns out. I understand that, I'm just saying that is not what a Citizen can do, out of pure fear of what might happen.
I will tell you an interesting story about working for an Alarm Company.
In 1989 when I first started working there, the Badges were gone, Technicians were Technicians, the carry permits and badges were a thing of the past. No more were issued.
It was SOP to have, "My Dispatcher call your Dispatcher," yet, sometimes that broke down, or the Officer panicked. He thought he had a Burglar on his hands. We were providing Key Service, you see. We had keys to many of these buildings. They had a tendency to be in bad areas where Owners and Managers did not want to go at 3:00am, therefore, they purchased this Service and provided keys.
Even with sleeve patches and a small patch over left chest, I still had gun after gun pulled on me.
So, one night, after having this happen and not wanting to get shot for doing my job, I found one in the office. The uniforms had changed and there was no longer a place for a badge. I just bought one of the around the neck badge holders, leather with a ball chain, and went about this job for about seven more years and never had another gun pulled on me by Law Enforcement.
A badge has mystical qualities to it, that cannot be denied. It automatically bangs out the idea, "Friendly" and allows them to pause for a second to think.
We're not off-topic, we're still in "Drawing Mindset." I would giggle when Evening Shift guys would come in with the shakes after having guns pulled on them.
"See there, you should have got yourself one of these lucky charms..."
There was an immediate recognition from, "Dickhead who might be a Burglar," to, "friend."
Never, ever had a problem after that. Even walked around the corner in a warehouse where the Burglar(s) had entered one way and exited another, leaving two different ends unsecure and the LEO and I met in the middle, so to speak. Never a problem then.
And thanks for the compliment.
For the record, I don't have a problem with the Concept of The Gunting, don't have a problem with letting someone go with their life although I don't want to see them again. And if it is a "Manhandling" situation, I don't have a problem with using The Gunting as it was intended.
When I have poured cold water on The Gunting in here, it was only to point out what I just did above, and to say, it's still a knife.
In many places, regardless of the intent of the design, it is going to be looked at as a knife. For a Civilian, this is not good. Because in situations where you can use it, primarily closed, you have drawn "Lethal Force" out of your pocket. Not only have you drawn it, you have used it. Just like pistol whipping someone...
For Law Enforcement, it's entirely different. They are allowed to brandish [firearm] if they even smell danger. This is a big difference between how an Armed Civilian conducts themselves in public and a LEO.
This is where LEOs have it good [one of the only places they have it "good" tactically speaking]. If they are in close proximity to you, they can order you not to move. They can lock you up if you don't listen. You make one move, they can draw.
[Remember, no shots fired, we're talking about producing the weapon]
The Civilian who has the Carry Permit, if he does that, he's in the jackpot. Because he was not confronted with anything that even smelled of "Lethal Force" just yet. He draws, he goes to jail, he has no more firearms or permit. "Brandishing."
The Civilian is held to a much higher standard of conduct when it comes to drawing the weapon. Any weapon. I have seen "Guns Out" on LEOs many, many times, it is nothing to see them with guns out. You drive by a traffic stop, the person inside the vehicle makes a wrong move, guns out. I understand that, I'm just saying that is not what a Citizen can do, out of pure fear of what might happen.
I will tell you an interesting story about working for an Alarm Company.
In 1989 when I first started working there, the Badges were gone, Technicians were Technicians, the carry permits and badges were a thing of the past. No more were issued.
It was SOP to have, "My Dispatcher call your Dispatcher," yet, sometimes that broke down, or the Officer panicked. He thought he had a Burglar on his hands. We were providing Key Service, you see. We had keys to many of these buildings. They had a tendency to be in bad areas where Owners and Managers did not want to go at 3:00am, therefore, they purchased this Service and provided keys.
Even with sleeve patches and a small patch over left chest, I still had gun after gun pulled on me.
So, one night, after having this happen and not wanting to get shot for doing my job, I found one in the office. The uniforms had changed and there was no longer a place for a badge. I just bought one of the around the neck badge holders, leather with a ball chain, and went about this job for about seven more years and never had another gun pulled on me by Law Enforcement.
A badge has mystical qualities to it, that cannot be denied. It automatically bangs out the idea, "Friendly" and allows them to pause for a second to think.
We're not off-topic, we're still in "Drawing Mindset." I would giggle when Evening Shift guys would come in with the shakes after having guns pulled on them.
"See there, you should have got yourself one of these lucky charms..."
There was an immediate recognition from, "Dickhead who might be a Burglar," to, "friend."
Never, ever had a problem after that. Even walked around the corner in a warehouse where the Burglar(s) had entered one way and exited another, leaving two different ends unsecure and the LEO and I met in the middle, so to speak. Never a problem then.