Does it matter to you how your knives are made?

I guess we are all here because there is something about knives that we think is great. What's the "great" part. Basicaly it's the design as far as I am concerned.

The method is a big deal as long as there isn't any alternative, but knives aren't like that. Highly mechanized knife making with all the computer gizmos doesn't guarantee a better product. If your making Boeings, it does, but it's not the case with knives. On the other hand, there is little about knives today that can't also be made by hand, but outside of fabulously complicated ornamentation, particularly for the modern pure lined knives, it can all be made by machine, in fact a lot of style today is machine influenced, like milled grip patterns, or materails that are basicaly unsafe to work by hand.

What we have is a product that's built it's reputation by hand, but can be made just as well by machine.

Design is the key, but even there, the biggest designers ar moving to the volume side of the ledger, and there are so many knifemakers now, that it is hard to hang onto a design edge for long.

What we need is a huge reduction in knife prices. For what is being delivered now, most knives are way overpriced.

Estwing just introduced a new weight forward hammer this year. I haven't tried one yet, but it's every bit as inovative as most new knives, but dirt cheap. They don't introduce a new design every three weeks though. New designs, looks etc... are the bread and butter of knives, and its real cool. It's a fashion business.
 
Put me in the Bastid and Colinz camp and add a good measure of Cliff Stamp to the mix.

I don't care how they are made. I hate the all too common "special/secret/exclusive/mystical process" and "secret steel" hype that comes with all to many of the knives on the market. And finally I hate makers/manufacturers that throw a fit when their product is tested to destruction and the results are analysed.

And unlike some people here I am not afraid to name names.

Two prime examples of makers that substitute insults for performance when their hype is tested are Ed Fowler and R. W. Clark
 
Originally posted by nhamilto40

And unlike some people here I am not afraid to name names.

Two prime examples of makers that substitute insults for performance when their hype is tested are Ed Fowler and R. W. Clark
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Hmmm... Unless of course it is your own name that is being requested!

Daniel
 
Originally posted by nhamilto40

Two prime examples of makers that substitute insults for performance when their hype is tested are Ed Fowler and R. W. Clark
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Did you test knives from Ed Fowler or R.W. Clark? I have followed those two threads and let's say I am not sure the reviews are 100% objective.
 
Two prime examples of makers that substitute insults for performance when their hype is tested are Ed Fowler and R. W. Clark


Did you test knives from Ed Fowler or R.W. Clark? I have followed those two threads and let's say I am not sure the reviews are 100% objective.
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My claim: Ed Fowler and R. W. Clark substitute insults for performance when their hype is tested.

Your claim: I am not sure the reviews are 100% objective.

Your argument is?
 
Originally posted by nhamilto40
My claim: Ed Fowler and R. W. Clark substitute insults for performance when their hype is tested.

Your claim: I am not sure the reviews are 100% objective.

Your argument is?
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If the reviews are not objective, it is not the performance that is tested. Or the "hype" as you say. The reaction of the makers makes sense to me if the reviews were intended from the begining to bash their work and reputation.
 
Wow, how did this thread start to turn so ugly? nhamilto40, what exactly does you hating Ed Fowler and RW Clark have to do with whether the way a knife is produced makes any difference to you? If you are about to say that you don't hate these two makers then you should take the time to read your original post.

And finally I hate makers/manufacturers that throw a fit when their product is tested to destruction and the results are analysed.

And unlike some people here I am not afraid to name names.

Two prime examples of makers that substitute insults for performance when their hype is tested are Ed Fowler and R. W. Clark
Click to expand...

If in fact you don't hate these makers then you should be more careful what you post. If you do hate them over a transgression as trivial as the one you have mentioned, it is my opinion that you show a proclivity towards overreaction.
 
I actually can't understand how someone who is passionate about knives would not care about how a knife is made. For me, sometimes I want just a working knife, and then I don't care how it's produced as long as it performs. Sometimes, I want hand craftmanship, and I do care how it's produced.

And sometimes, there's an in-between. I want a kick-butt performer, but I also want the pride of ownership that handmade/custom/whatever can bring. This was my thinking when I went out recently to find a new EDC. It had to have kick ass performance. And it had to look good. And it had to be from a maker, not a factory. I got a Lochsa.

I also have an EDC that has kick-butt performance and *is* from a factory -- a Benchmade 710.

I appreciate the hard work that goes into either a factory or custom knife, but also feel that the sweat and pain that goes into a custom is more personal in some weird way.

Joe
 
Very well put, Joe. There is no doubt that I care about how my knives are made. I want quality of design and manufacture whether the knife is custom or production.

The reason that I prefer one off custom knives is that I get to own a knife that is not going to be like anyone elses. There will also be a little bit of me in the knife. Another reason is that I very much enjoy the interaction with the maker.

I care very mush how the knives I collect are made. They must be forged and they must be bowies. Knives of this type are one of my true passions.

When it comes to knives I use, functionality and quality are what is important to me. How the knives are made becomes quite secondary in my considerations.
 
Interesting thread.

We Manufacture industrial and medical knives, blades, and related products. the CNC's we use, fixtures, tooling are highly specialized for this purpose. Using a Bowie knife as example, about 10" long, we can machine it out of solid stainless in about 22 minutes. the blade is ready for polishing. No grinding is needed unless it falls out of tolerancing.(tool wear).
Is it any better than a Handmade knife? no, it isnt if the knifemaker is experienced, etc.
the difficult aspect is for the knifemaker to replicate his best knife, each time. we can put out that knife every 30 minutes, day in, day out. that is the only advantage.

heat treating is the single most important aspect as well. We use machine materials in their hardened state. Hardening after machining would create deflection in the material. All things equal, heat treating is what seperates a good knife from a great knife.
 
Depends on price. Won't pay high price for production. Some of the prices I've seen you can get a semi-custom sword, or custom. Beckers, IMO, are a great value. not very expensive, they perform very, very well. Knives made for use, no pretty about about them. Not sure if they get enough credit. Knives I've made for people are are in that style, probably why I like them. Thick, sharp, take abuse. Some custom stuff I look at, and know how much work went into it.


But no I don't care how it was made, long as it serves its purpose. My tool.
 
I definitely prefer hand made. And I think the argument that a handmade cannot be as good as a machine made product is rubbish (in fact, I think the opposite).

RL
 
Primarily I care about design, fit, finish and performance. The methodology used to achieve it is immaterial for me most of the time. I love the Chris Reeve products which are really production with a significant amount of hand work. They meet all my criteria.

There is, however, an issue of pride of ownership. It is an intangible and I think it is what drives those that care about the methodology. I'll give you an example. I once had a custom Elishwitz folder with a damasteel blade that I sent to a second maker for file work, large mother of pearl slab scales and handle anodizing. The resulting product was incredible and unique. It was the only knife like it on the planet. I didn't have the heart to use it. Owning a knife that I wouldn't use preyed upon me for a while. I loved the product but I was constantly bothered by the idea that I wouldn't use it. Some guy offered me $1500 for it one day and I parted with it. I have regretted it ever since. Pride of ownership of a unique knife was the attraction and it was a strong one, it turns out, because performance certainly wasn't an issue in that case.

I think it all matters. I think the motivations are different. For me use and pride of ownership are sometimes very different.
 
Originally posted by RL
I definitely prefer hand made. And I think the argument that a handmade cannot be as good as a machine made product is rubbish (in fact, I think the opposite).

RL
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I thoroughly agree that a handmade knife can be easily as well made as any production knife. The only advantage, if you call it an advantage, that I see in production manufacture is that every knife of a certain model coming of the line will look exactly the same as the last. I do not even believe that production knives have an advantage where tolerances are concerned. A well made custom knife will have incredibly tight tolerances.

As mentioned, pride of ownership is a big part of the attraction when it comes to custom knives. It is also a big part of the attraction when it comes to high end production knives. Will a Sebenza really do a better job of cutting than a Griptilian or an Endura? Even if it does, the percentage of improvement will be no where near as much as the percentage of price increase. So why then do we buy Sebenzas over other great, less expensive knives? Pride of ownership. Pride of ownership means different things to different people. It covers pride in owning something that others lust over and pride in owning the highest quality tool that we can afford. Many times we will actually pay more than we can afford to get the knives we want. For some, pride of ownership is always having to own something that is better than average, sometimes much better.
 
Like most knife knuts, I would love a hand-forged knife but ultimately, if the knife in my hand is reliable, doesn't fail me at crucial moments, I don't really care how it is made.

There's nothing like a great knife which just works, works and cuts everlastingly! Where it comes from and how it is made are not very important issues.
 
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