Does the para 2 still come with a pivot bushing?

[mrdeus]

I got my first para 2 today. The action is very nice (at its current pivot setting), with only a tiny bit of blade play. However, I noticed that unless I pinch just the lock bar, the blade won't swing freely. If I grip the handle in any way that compresses the liners (e.g. the thumb on the pivot and index finger on the lock bar), the blade won't fall by its own weight.

If I tighten the pivot, the blade is basically stuck. I was under the impression that the para 2 had a pivot bushing similar to the Sebenza, which would make it impossible to overtighten the pivot.

So I'm wondering if Spyderco stopped using the pivot bushing on the para 2, or if the bushing on mine is simply too small (nullifying the effect of it)?

(I don't feel like taking the knife apart to check right now, since it's brand new).

 

[sector2]

And doing so will kill your warranty with spyderco !!!!

 

[mrdeus]

And doing so will kill your warranty with spyderco !!!!

The cost of shipping the knife back and forth would be the same as the value of a new knife anyway, so...

 

[senorsquare]

Sometimes the stop pin screws can have an effect on the action so you may want to look at adjusting these in addition to the pivot screws to fine tune the opening action without disassembling the knife. All of my para2's have been a little different in regards to having a free swinging blade out of the box and I've had a couple that took a little fiddling around with to get the balance between a free swinging blade and no play.

 

[mrdeus]

Sometimes the stop pin screws can have an effect on the action so you may want to look at adjusting these in addition to the pivot screws to fine tune the opening action without disassembling the knife. All of my para2's have been a little different in regards to having a free swinging blade out of the box and I've had a couple that took a little fiddling around with to get the balance between a free swinging blade and no play.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm actually not that bothered by the blade play. It's so minute, so it's not an issue.

Being able to overtighten the pivot, to me, is a symptom of the pivot bushing not doing its job. The actual problem is that if there's any pressure that presses the liners together, the blade sticks. If I just pinch the lock between my fingers (thumb on the G10 and index finger on the lock), the blade swings close, but if I put my thumb on the pivot, index finger on the lock and the rest of the fingers on the G10 on the other side of the handle, the blade sticks.

 

[mkjellgren]

Its likely that your washers are very slightly too thick, or pivot too thin, its a $100ish production knife, there will be slight variances. You can either just wait it out and let smooth out naturally or you can take it apart and VERY carefully sand and polish the washers with some super fine (2000 grit works well) wet/dry sandpaper. Ideally uou would measure the washers with a digital caliper and only remove a thousandth or so and check the fit.

 

[mr_anderson]

Taking apart the knife will not void the warranty unless you break it. The blade stop screws also affect the blade play, those can be loosened or tightened depended on what you need to do.

 

[mrdeus]

Its likely that your washers are very slightly too thick, or pivot too thin

So, it's option "B", then. That the paras that ship out today still have the pivot bushing and mine just happens to be to small.

polish the washers with some super fine (2000 grit works well) wet/dry sandpaper

Thanks for the tip.

 

[JNewell]

I got my first para 2 today. The action is very nice (at its current pivot setting), with only a tiny bit of blade play. However, I noticed that unless I pinch just the lock bar, the blade won't swing freely. If I grip the handle in any way that compresses the liners (e.g. the thumb on the pivot and index finger on the lock bar), the blade won't fall by its own weight.

If I tighten the pivot, the blade is basically stuck. I was under the impression that the para 2 had a pivot bushing similar to the Sebenza, which would make it impossible to overtighten the pivot.

So I'm wondering if Spyderco stopped using the pivot bushing on the para 2, or if the bushing on mine is simply too small (nullifying the effect of it)?

(I don't feel like taking the knife apart to check right now, since it's brand new).

It has a stepped pivot, not a pivot bushing. It's not at all similar to the Sebenza.

The Para2 is somewhat fiddly to adjust. In a nutshell, loosen both pivot screws and both stop screws. Tighten and Loctite (is that a verb?) the pivot screws when you've got play eliminated and the right blade action for your tastes, then carefully tighten the stop screws just enough so they don't change the action. You will almost certainly need Loctite on the stop screws because they are probably going to be quite loose. By the way, it's only possible to properly check lateral blade play with the lock unlocked.

 

[JNewell]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm actually not that bothered by the blade play. It's so minute, so it's not an issue.

Being able to overtighten the pivot, to me, is a symptom of the pivot bushing not doing its job. The actual problem is that if there's any pressure that presses the liners together, the blade sticks. If I just pinch the lock between my fingers (thumb on the G10 and index finger on the lock), the blade swings close, but if I put my thumb on the pivot, index finger on the lock and the rest of the fingers on the G10 on the other side of the handle, the blade sticks.

The issue is that it isn't a pivot bushing - it's doing its job just fine, it's just a different system. It needs to be adjusted properly for its design.

 

[mrdeus]

The issue is that it isn't a pivot bushing - it's doing its job just fine, it's just a different system. It needs to be adjusted properly for its design.

So, what would you say IS the purpose of this stepped pivot, compared to a normal pivot, if it's not to act the same way as a Sebenza pivot bushing?

And let me reiterate that blade play or adjustment of the pivot screw is not the issue here. It's that the blade's movement is affected by how I grip the handle (even after finding the goldilocks pivot tension), like I wrote earlier.

 

[MatthewSB]

Mine were the same way. I had to slather the threads in Loctite, slowly tighten both sides until the blade wouldn't move, then back it off a few degrees at a time. It takes several tries, but eventually I can get them to where there is zero blade play and it will open like it's on ball bearings.

 

[Lenny]

I've had 2 Para 2's which also had to be fiddled with and LocTited to get perfect.
And neither of mine will close just with the weight of the blade.
But I kinda like it that way, it's sort of safety device to keep my fingers from getting cut off.
Not to hijack the thread or anything, but here's what I've been wondering.
The Para 2 is made in Golden Co and needs fiddling to be good.
I've had 2 Sage 1's, made in Taiwan, which have been absolutely perfect in every way.
Can anybody explain this to me?
Lenny

 

[mrdeus]

Mine were the same way. I had to slather the threads in Loctite, slowly tighten both sides until the blade wouldn't move, then back it off a few degrees at a time. It takes several tries, but eventually I can get them to where there is zero blade play and it will open like it's on ball bearings.

So, yours also had smooth action where the blade would fall freely with minimal blade play, but would have the blade stick as soon as you put even a little pressure with your fingers on the scales over the pivot?

 

[The Deacon]

So, what would you say IS the purpose of this stepped pivot, compared to a normal pivot, if it's not to act the same way as a Sebenza pivot bushing?

Possibly to make assembly easier at the factory. A Sebenza pivot only acts the way it does because CRK maintains extremely tight tolerances. Even a regular "chicago screw" style pivot will allow the blade to move smoothly, with no slop, when the pivot screw is tightened completely, but only if the blade and washers are always exactly the same thickess and the screw is always exactly the right length.

 

[mrdeus]

Possibly to make assembly easier at the factory. A Sebenza pivot only acts the way it does because CRK maintains extremely tight tolerances. Even a regular "chicago screw" style pivot will allow the blade to move smoothly, with no slop, when the pivot screw is tightened completely, but only if the blade and washers are always exactly the same thickess and the screw is always exactly the right length.

And if you pinched the liners on this theoretical perfect "regular" pivoted knife. Wouldn't that affect the blade's smoothness? And if the para 2 pivot was just to make factory assembly easier, why would it even be mentioned in the marketing material? "Implementation of a new Bushing Pivot System generates fluid action and more consistent manufacturing tolerances."

 

[The Deacon]

And if you pinched the liners on this theoretical perfect "regular" pivoted knife. Wouldn't that affect the blade's smoothness? And if the para 2 pivot was just to make factory assembly easier, why would it even be mentioned in the marketing material? "Implementation of a new Bushing Pivot System generates fluid action and more consistent manufacturing tolerances."

I suppose it would, but since it can only happen if one employs a totally unnatural grip while opening or closing the knife, IMHO, it's a non-issue. As for the other, as you noted, it's marketing material. Sixty plus years of exposure to advertising hype has made me take advertising by even the most honest of companies with a grain of salt.

 

[mr_anderson]

Why are you making this more complicated than it needs to be? I've never had to grip my Para hard enough to make the blade not open or close, I'm not sure what your malfunction is.

 

[mrdeus]

Why are you making this more complicated than it needs to be? I've never had to grip my Para hard enough to make the blade not open or close, I'm not sure what your malfunction is.

Looks like I have to take a supplementary evening course in English, since only mkjellgren understood what I was asking. The rest of the discussion is based on other people's replies about the uselessness of pivot bushings and what have you.

Its not that I _have_ to grip the handle in a certain way or that the knife is malfunctioning. I noticed that _if_ I gripped the handle in a certain way, using no more pressure than necessary to disengage the lock, the blade wouldn't fall. I figured that I was flexing the liners, but the same situation arose when disengaging the lock while holding the knife lightly over the pivot (clarification: as a part of the troubleshooting process). This was inconsistent with how I expected the pivot bushing (as advertised by spyderco) to work. Then I tried to tighten the pivot to confirm my suspicion that the bushing was too small (or missing). So, I asked the original question, which was answered by mkjellgren and misinterpreted by everyone else.

 

[Nullity]

Seems like lots of people think the PM2's stepped pivot bushing should function no different than a standard pivot.
I think it is meant to function just like the Sebenza's pivot bushing. If not, then why use a stepped pivot bushing instead of a standard pivot?

OP: Sure sounds like your pivot bushing is milled too small or your blade/washers are too thick.
Modifying the width of the step on the pivot bushing is probably not possible without a lathe, so thinning the washers is the only option I can think of. It would be pretty cool if you could modify the action to your liking. I dunno how you would keep the washers a consistent thickness or if a bit of unevenness would even affect the action.

Let us know what you decide. Good luck.