Dog attack defense using knife?

I'm not saying that you won't get hurt in a dogfight, I'm just saying that it's not something to unnecessarily freak out over. A dog attack isn't a whole lot different than a human-with-a-kinfe attack. Well, obviously there's differences, but you know what I'm saying. It is a situation that can be handled.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't kick the ever-loving $hit out of a dog that was trying to hurt me or somebody else. If it was after me, I'd look for another way out. If it's somebody else, the dog's going down. It's still not a thing I'd like to do. A lot of times the dog's just doing what it thinks is right.

Which brings up an important point. Dogs are pack animals. They will defend their pack with their lives. We've all heard stories of how a dog's thrown itself into a fight even when it's totaly outmatched to defend it's master. They'll also defend their territory with vigor. A dog protecting it's turf or pack will fight with reckless abandon. In those cases, a kill is the only way you're gonna get out.

If the dog's out of it's teritory, with no pack to protect, it'll be a lot more timid. Threat displays are common in all predatory species. They can't afford to go around picking fights that may result in death. So bluffs do have their place. Also in those situations, all it may take to get the dog to break off is a good whooping.

As has been mentioned, dogs go for the hind legs, the try to rip out the tendons or something to bring down prey. Not so long ago there was a deer that had been raised as a pet and released that got ran down by some dogs. The dogs had been raised as pets too, so they didn't know/have-the-inclination-to kill. But they tore the deer's legs up something fierce. When facing one dog, you'll be head-to-head with it, but if facing multiple, at least one will get behind you. It's also not a good idea to run from a dog.

If it latches on to your forearm, I heard it said that a way to get it to release is to press your thumb down hard under it's tongue, it'll activate some sort of gag reflex or something. I've tried it playing with my dogs, it works. The thing is, my dogs weren't trying to hurt me. I wonder if a attacking dog wouldn't bite your thumb off when it released...

Goat, sounds like a good tactic of giving the dog your off-hand so you can dispatch it. The only problem is I don't have a bear hand.
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Too bad, those things come in awfully handy
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From this and previous posts by Jailhack, it is clear he has experience with some pretty vicous natural-born killers of the four and two legged variety. I've certainly never been attacked by such savage beasts. I've been bitten in the leg but never experienced a dog trying to rip my hamstings out (ouch!). I was not refering to such animals. If I saw one, I'd probably climb a tree or something.
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There's just no point playing psyche games with dogs that aren't bluffing. I am not going to stand around to out macho a wolf.

It probably pays to know your breed. I'm fairly ignorant. I just classify threat according to dog size.

As a side note, don't offer your free-hand to Hyenas. They'll just bite it right off.




[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 23 June 1999).]
 
I haven't seen anyone suggest this and I've got a feeling it's a BAD idea, but here goes:

I heard one of these PBS dog show experts say that a good way to get a pit bull (or smaller) dog off of you is to jam a finger up it's rear end.

Now, snickering and immature jokes aside, it raises a dominance/Alpha issue that leads me to believe the dog might actually head for the hills. I have no clue how someone with a 70lb dog hanging on their arm or thigh would actually be able to perform such a feat, but a supposed dog expert did indeed say this was a good way to end an attack...

I'd probably opt for a Glock, big stick or big knife (in that order) and leave the finger jabbing for the more adventurous sort.

Jon
 
I have been attacked several times by canines. The most dangerous dogs, in my experience, are those that make no noise and nail you from behind. Gotten bitten a couple times that way working in campgrounds on patrol. Normally, if I stand my ground and yell at the dog, that will cause it to stop. I did have a large Chow pure-bred keep coming one night and was lucky enough to land a left handed swing with my Mag Light (got to keep the gun hand free at night...) This stopped the Chow cold as it was a hard swing with a D cell size Mag Charger. Interestingly enough, after knocking it silly, the dog wanted to be my friend...

So, I guess that I agree above with the yell, stand ground, and hit them with a stick type weapon on the snout or head if possible. And, as Jail Hack says, be prepared to get bitten once in a while if you are around aggressive dogs enough.

To get back on topic, I have never had enough advance warning when not armed with an ASP or Flashlight to bring my knife into play... If it got that bad I might resort to the .45 ACP.

My .02,

Waldo
 
Wether it works or not, sticking your finger in the dog's butt is a bad idea! Yuck!

I wouldn't doubt there's truth to it though. I know that the reason cat's lift their tails is it's a submissive gesture of offering you some booty. Not cool in the slightest! But it does seem most submissive/dominant gestures are of a sexual nature.

Still, I'll take my chances with the gag reflex...
 
RH,

Yes, I do think that owners should be punished, especially when they purposely train their dogs to fight, BUT I don't think that the average dog owner who takes care of their pet should get charged when/if the otherwise "normal" dog suddenly looses control and has to have blood one day. This one article suggests banning certain breeds, quadrupling license fees, and all for those few that train killer dogs. But I agree, throw the book at ppl who abude their animals in such ways.

--
Shawn
"Earth has its boundaries, but human stupidity is limitless."
 
I favor carrying a Maglite with the lens end in the palm of my hand. I hold it with the butt sort of resting on my shoulder. I am essentially in a ready-to-hammer position. This is the way I patrol or investigate things that go bump in the night.

"In case of sudden pain, whack with flashlite".

The trouble with a knife in the dark is that a relatively small bump will cause a cut. If I investigate with a knife I hold it inverted with the blade hidden next to my fore-arm (edge away from arm). It is less likely to freak out members of your family if they don't see the knife when you catch them sneaking in the back door. On the other hand it is quick if the pit bull lunges at you.

PS. When I've had troubles with pit bulls in my yard I back them out with a pitch fork. They seem to know not to lunge into the tines.
 
I know other people have mentioned this, but I would like to re-emphasize that a dog attack is no joke. I haven't been attacked personally, but I have been around Great Danes since I was born. Some people on this thread have suggested allowing the dog to bite your weak arm and then slit its throat. This is great if its a small dog (75 lbs and under), but a Dane or other giant breed will break the bone and probably leave you with a permanent disability. I have seen a doorknob that was bitten by our Dane as she was dying of a twisted stomach. Its an extremely painful injury, so she was in a lot of pain. The doorknob was punctured in some places and crushed about half an inch into the doorknob around the punctures. The metal in a doorknob is a little harder than your flesh and muscle. Also, if you are dealing with a dog that perceives you as a threat to its owner or puppies, rightly or wrongly, you have the choice to die and let the dog live or kill the dog. Both of the females and one of the male Danes we had were extremely attached to my mother. They wouldn't have attacked without provocation, but if they saw you as a threat to her, you were done. Fortuately this was never tested, but a friend of my father's was nearly attacked when he slapped my dad on the back. Basically, I'm trying to say, if you can get away with you and the dog alive, great. Just don't assume you can easily beat a large dog that sees you as a threat to its owner. You would probably be in for a rude awakening.

------------------
Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
 
Roadrunner,

Excellent point, but if the cut is made immediately, the dog won't have time to get his body-weight into a "shaking" position, which is how canines do most of their bone damage. Jaw-clamping occurs with most brain injuries, but with air loss-- such as that inflicted by a slashed trachea-- the instinct is to open the mouth. Add to that the probability of a sliced jugular or carotid, and you've taken the fight out of the dog, no matter what his size or jaw strength.

------------------
Sean Perkins
perkinsknives.com
seanperkins@yahoo.com
 
Problem with predicting behavioural patterns in K9s is the variety of the breeds. I think some of us have in mind eccentric, but otherwise friendly dogs, and others are thinking of giant monster dogs.

Dogs can be the size of a rat to the roughly the size of a smallish bear. They can be lapdogs to trained killers. It's dangerous to lumped them into one catagory and say "dogs will do 'X'".

I for one am grateful we have so many perspectives on this opic.

I think a good rule of thumb is: If the dog weighs more than you, be afraid
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[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 23 June 1999).]
 
lol @ Sean's earlier post. I never stabbed a dog before, but I almost fought a bear with my Ka-Bar. Black Bear was out behind my house one day in the woods where I was. It was about 40 ft from me I'd say, maybe a little more. I pulled my Ka-Bar the instant I saw it, but it started to just walk away, like I wasn't a big deal to it. Wild experience.
 
I love dogs. Our miniature schnauzer is like our child, even sleeps in bed with us. But...let me relate a true story. My mother and her boyfriend were playing cards at some friends house a few months ago. Their friends had a pair of St. Bernards that had puppies. Before the card game, everyone went and looked at and played with the puppies and the parents were cool with that. During a break, the two guys stepped outside on the porch. The male St. Bernard rushed my mother's boyfriend and knocked him down and attacked him. The owner could not get him off. My mother watched in horror as this beast bit his nose completely off and crushed his eye socket and continued to chew him up on the ground, chest and arm included. Dog finally quit. Mom thought he was dead. They found his nose (lucky the dog didn't swallow it) and took it to the hospital with them and the Dr. reattached it. If you don't think you should be wary of big dogs, you should hear her cry though this story. Eight hours of emergency plastic surgery and 300+ stitches later, does Frankenstein ring a bell??? They destroyed the dog but could fing nothing wrong with it. I am now afraid of big dogs and automatically come to a defensive posture anytime I am around one on the loose. I will NEVER own a dog so big that I couldn't whack the **** out of it if it were to go crazy. If my dog ever attacks and bites anyone, it will be put down. I have zero tolerance for a biting dog. Be afraid, be very afraid, but be ready to defend yourself. If your dog attacks me, I will kill it.
 
I have no fear of dogs since I've got one. I'd hypothesize that the fear is what can provoke an attack. Killing a dog is something I wouldn't care to do. If ever in the situation, I think I'll just give the attacking dog a Timberland boot to the head and a good yellin' at.
 
I recalled being atacked by dogs (yea, more than one) when I was 11 back there in Indonesia. I was riding a bicycle when this one dog started barking at me. I wasn't affraid because it was small anyway. But in just a few seconds the whole pack was there. I fell from my bike (or did I threw it?) and found myself surrounded and snarled at. The biggest of them all was a big dane mix and started to chew my left shoe. I don't remember anything beyond that, but later I found myself surrounded by my helpers, panting and covered with blood.

Funny thing was that my mouth was covered with blood too. Further examination revealed that I had no serious wounds except the one in my right thigh. My surprise came from a guy who found a dog ear near me (yuck!). I guess I bit one of the dogs ear off, and that should explain the blood around my mouth. I really don't remember...

Reynaert
 
I don't remember the details, but it was on the news (Toronto) that a police dog (read well trained) while on duty, was killed by a drunk. How? The dog got bitten on the nose.
 
I`ve had two experiences with dogs. The first ,it was a Doberman with a very bad temper. After growling at me and baring it`s teeth it leapt right at me jaws wide open going for (in this case) my throat. Without really thinking I nailed it hard in the chops with a right cross and knocked it to the ground. It yelped once then assumed an aggressive posture again. Fortunatly the fight seemed to be out of it though and it let me slowly back away and make my escape. I was suprised that for how hard I hit it it had suffered no apparent injury. The second time I was out taking a walk when 3 really scroungy dogs quietly walked out of an alley and began to surround me. They never barked just started to grown, bristle their hair and bare their teeth. I was backed against a wall (literally) so I drew my Kershaw lockback which only had a 2 3/4" blade and stood my ground with every intention of making an attack hurt them as much or more than it hurt me. We had a mexican standoff for what seemed like forever. I slowly started to inch down the sidewalk,never turning my back on them and they let me go. Whew. I wouldn`t loved to have my Vaquero in this case too,just as someone else said or better yet my .45
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. Marcus
 
Tuff - Fighting a bear with a knife is one thing that NO ONE would live to remember..
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Actually, this thread reminds me of an article in a book called Combat Handgunnery, 3rd Edition, by Chuck Karwan on handguns and big game, and knives are frequently referenced within the article. It seems as though ppl have actually survived attacks from such animals as lions, cheetahs, and even bears by defending themselves with a knife (read: BIG, kukris and bowies), despite being SEVERELY mauled in the process.

Gives me a comforting feeling.
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------------------
Shawn
"Earth has its boundaries, but human stupidity is limitless."

 
Sean Perkins has it exactly rigth. I train dogs for Field and Obediencce proffesionally and have read enough about attack training to share this with you. Firstly, if you are attacked, it will happen so fast, you won’t have time to draw your knife. Secondly, if you can draw your knife, be aware that that dog will shake your arm so vigorously it can knock you down. Make sure you disable it enough to be captured and checked for rabies. LOL


 
Actualy, wasn't it Ben Lilly that killed bears with bowies as a matter of course?

I myself am prone to tackle boar(under 150-200lbs) and stab them to death. I soften them up with an arrow to the leg first. Otherwise I can't catch up to them. Sure, I get tusked once in a while, but nothing too bad. A few scrapes. No WAY I'd do a bear like that though. Not even a little one.

Humans can be just as tough as any other animal. I have seen guys out in the Ten Thousand Islands who go out on the flats in their boats, wait for a small shark("small" seems to be relative to the person though, biggest are around 7' or so) to swim under the boat, then pounce on them and wrestle them to the surface.

And I'm sure we all have seen that crazy Australian. I'll never forget that first documentary of his I saw on the most deadly snakes in the world;

"G'day! Here we have the dreaded vorpal death snake of the Outback. Look at the cute little bugger all scared because he's corned in my car's engine block. I'm gonna go screw with him! Ooh! The bloke tried to bite me!"

This dude has problems.

My best dog attack story happened when i was around for. There was this stupid little I don't know what kinda dog in my neighborhood who'd given me a fierce barking earlier. I was in a little baby seat on the back of a bike when this little dog comes chasing it and barking. Being I had a bad experience with him earlier, I jerked my feet up instantly. Just as fast one foot got caught in the spokes of the bike and my shoe, and a good part of my foot, was taken off. `Twas only a flesh wound, and it did heal. Nasty though.

Moral to the story;

Sometimes fear itself is more dangerous than what you're afraid of.
 
I mean this with all due respect, but as a Schutzhund/Personal Protection trainer for over 10 years I have so say that I see ALOT of misconceptions about dog/human aggresion and dog attacks in general here. I recommend any truly interested parties e-mail me or talk to a qualified trainer in your area for more in depth info on how to deal with an attack situation because it would take up too much space here to even begin to touch on the subject. That being said and assuming conditions are just right (weapon is at the ready, knife arm is free, etc.) yes, a knife would obviously be a great help in ending the attack. Do what you have to do and leave the rest up to Animal Control and the judicial system (yeah, I know, not very comforting, huh?)
Tim
Dogman468@aol.com
 
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