Dogfather Vs. B11 Vs. KZ II

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Huntsman Knife Co. LLC.

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I have been thinking about picking up a Basic 11 after reading some reviews on how light and fast it feels in hand and how deeply it bites. However I already have a dogfather that I love and use constantly, how much of a difference is there in chopping performance between the two? Also I know the handles are very similar but do they feel any different?

Ive seen some reviews where the B11 chops almost as well as the KZ II despite being half the weight. My dogfather has a scary sharp convex edge that is perfect for chopping and my KZ II still has a pretty bad edge on it that Ive been trying to reprofile but even with the edge advantage my KZ II puts the DF to shame when chopping. Based on this and the reviews Ive seen I imagine the B11 is one helluva chopper.
 
The biggest difference you will find is that SR-77 doesn't stay as sharp as INFI. I love Scrap Yards for wailing on a knife that just begs for more abuse...but INFI can take the same beating and hold an edge much MUCH better. I have a Dog Father and Basic 11, and I use both. The Dog Father needs a strop after every chopping session to maintain a real "biting" convex edge. However, the Basic 11 hasn't even been stropped and still bites very deep. I hope this helps man; just my 2 cents!
 
I'll try to take a picture of my kz2 next to my b11 now that I've brought the edges down. I try to put a releif bevel at 18 degree's until I can apply a 24 degree primary that maintains the same heigth from ricasso to tip, preferably no taller then 1/16", generally closer to 1/32".

I took them both out to cut down a couple of palm fronds today. The kz did bite in deeper, but not enough for it to be worth it for that particular task. It wore my forearm down within about 3 minutes. The basic 11 performed wonderfully, giving me almost as deep of a bite and being much, much, much more controllable. To do most of the hand held work off of the tree while shaving off the leaves and then cutting the stem of the frond down to 12" lengths, I had to hold the kz2 in a choked up grip for it to be really manageable. It's not that it wasn't manageable in a full grip, it was just so heavy that the repeated fast swinging to shave the leaves off would have worn down my forearm way to fast.

My thoughts at the end of it was that the kz2 is very much a "heavy woods" knife, and not for lighter work that requires speed and repetition. If I had to have only one, I'd keep the basic 11. It is by far the most well rounded chopper I've handled from busse, for both repetition, speed of the tip, and ability to bite in as a heavy chopper, all in a lightweight package.

I just wish I could get one with g10 slabs :thumbup:
 
I've used the dogfather and I ended up selling it. The format is similar to the basic 9 where it's just under what I want for a heavy chopper. That put's it at a disadvantage to something like nmfbm for me, where I'd rather have something slightly to heavy then something slightly light. In a comparison of the kz2 and the b11 though, the kz2 is WAY to heavy for a lot of things.

I have no idea whether putting a set of g10 scales on the basic 11 format and making it full tang would ruin the balance and feel of the knife or not, but I have a feeling that it is a lot like the dsf, it's comparably lean format with it's minimal handle next to taller bulkier blades inherently makes it feel lighter, faster and more agile in the hand.


While the basic 11 is by no means a "thin" knife as far as edge thickness goes, it is a lot thinner then the kz2. I had to remove a whole bunch of metal from the tip to get it to where I could put a 24 degree bevel on it that wasn't half an inch tall.

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Im kind of torn because I love my KZ but it honestly is too heavy for alot of things. You can't move it fast and it wears you out. I think the B11 is kind of the ultimate on the trail chopper while the KZ is the ultimate back yard chopper. I carried my Zilla a bunch this weekend to get used to the weight but it was very noticeable while hiking. Also I hate that no one makes a normal sheath for it. i don't really like the open spine thing, it takes to much attention to draw and re sheath.

I have a Junglas that Im going to start using to see if I like it better but I doubt I will.

I just dont know if the advantage of the B11 is worth the cost compared to the DF. My experience with the KZ has shown me that INFI holds an incredible edge when chopping but I have paper wheels so edge retention isn't all that big of an issue for me anymore.

I also have a waki and scrapizashi. I havent used the scrapizashi yet but I can tell from the feel that it would chop like a beast. The waki chops great but the shock really hurts and carrying a sword with you isnt the best way to impress women on camping trips....

maybe I just need to buy and axe...
 
I have an axe and a hatchet. I carry my B-11 stripped and convexed.
 
KalEl said:
Also I hate that no one makes a normal sheath for it. i don't really like the open spine thing, it takes to much attention to draw and re sheath.

I have a Junglas that Im going to start using to see if I like it better but I doubt I will.

I just dont know if the advantage of the B11 is worth the cost compared to the DF. My experience with the KZ has shown me that INFI holds an incredible edge when chopping but I have paper wheels so edge retention isn't all that big of an issue for me anymore.

I also have a waki and scrapizashi. I havent used the scrapizashi yet but I can tell from the feel that it would chop like a beast. The waki chops great but the shock really hurts and carrying a sword with you isnt the best way to impress women on camping trips....

maybe I just need to buy and axe...
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You can have a normal sheath made for you, it just takes a maker who will keep the distance between the belly and the ricasso straight. I'm positive dave brown could rig you up one like this, but not as horrendously ghetto:
zP1070351.jpg


I used a sheath I made for the ttkz for this, which is why the extra holes are in it. and I didn't do it right on the ttkz, I just formed it without putting something to keep the belly to ricasso line straight and flaired out, so the shinyness is from excessive use of a lighter. I used nuts and bolts instead of tube fasteners because I wanted to be able to pull it apart and clean it if dirt and grit got into it.

Whether or not to carry an axe is a choice you'll have to make based on how much wood chopping you do. I personally wouldn't carry an axe over a basic 11 while camping because the basic 11 is more versatile at roughly the same weight, if not less. You are correct in the assessment that the kz2 is an excellent backyard chopper and the basic 11 is an excellent pack chopper. The kz will do better at splitting wood, but it limits itself because of it's weight.

If you want a 'one blade does it all' the basic 11 will do that very well. If I had to choose between it and the dogfather I'd go with the basic 11 because of the length, the steel, and the handle. I much prefer the slim basic handle over the squarish scrap yard/swamp rat style, but a lot of people prefer fatter grips, as seen by the love of magnum scales.

The basic 11 is a better knife and a better machete then the kz2 can ever be because of it's weight. It is an excellent chopper because of it's length and it's forward blade balance, but it will never compare to the kz2 for chopping power if your working primarily with wood. Because of it's thinner edge, the b11 will perform at a level that makes it appear more profitable as a general chopper if you use it side by side with the kz2.

In short, the kz2 is something that is just so cool you have to have it, but that doesn't make it the best choice if you intend to use it extensively.
 
DF vs. B11 vs. BWM...

My preference is the B11 as the best combination of lightweight, comfort and chopping ability.

The DF grip is better, but doesn't has as much reach and is heavier. It chops very well, especially for splitting, but the weight will cause fatigue sooner.

The BWM is lighter, is the nicest looking of the three, is light, has a nice grip but being micarta isn't as forgiving for prolonged use. I think it is the least best chopper of the three. However, I heard the LE is much better.

The B11 handle is comfortable but less so and smaller than the DF. The longer reach is great however and it cuts deep. The lighter weight is wonderful for carry and prolonged use.

The only real decision here is which you should get first ;)
 
Last Visible Canary said:
You can have a normal sheath made for you, it just takes a maker who will keep the distance between the belly and the ricasso straight. I'm positive dave brown could rig you up one like this, but not as horrendously ghetto:
zP1070351.jpg


I used a sheath I made for the ttkz for this, which is why the extra holes are in it. and I didn't do it right on the ttkz, I just formed it without putting something to keep the belly to ricasso line straight and flaired out, so the shinyness is from excessive use of a lighter. I used nuts and bolts instead of tube fasteners because I wanted to be able to pull it apart and clean it if dirt and grit got into it.

Whether or not to carry an axe is a choice you'll have to make based on how much wood chopping you do. I personally wouldn't carry an axe over a basic 11 while camping because the basic 11 is more versatile at roughly the same weight, if not less. You are correct in the assessment that the kz2 is an excellent backyard chopper and the basic 11 is an excellent pack chopper. The kz will do better at splitting wood, but it limits itself because of it's weight.

If you want a 'one blade does it all' the basic 11 will do that very well. If I had to choose between it and the dogfather I'd go with the basic 11 because of the length, the steel, and the handle. I much prefer the slim basic handle over the squarish scrap yard/swamp rat style, but a lot of people prefer fatter grips, as seen by the love of magnum scales.

The basic 11 is a better knife and a better machete then the kz2 can ever be because of it's weight. It is an excellent chopper because of it's length and it's forward blade balance, but it will never compare to the kz2 for chopping power if your working primarily with wood. Because of it's thinner edge, the b11 will perform at a level that makes it appear more profitable as a general chopper if you use it side by side with the kz2.

In short, the kz2 is something that is just so cool you have to have it, but that doesn't make it the best choice if you intend to use it extensively.
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Thanks that was a great assessment. Im going to get a better sheath made for my DF( I have been hesitant to take it on hikes because the retention sucks) and see how I like it for extended trips into the woods. I'll also try out the junglas and see how I like it.

Im kind of torn about the Zilla. I love chopping with it. I split tons of wood every chance I get and have a blast doing it but having a $600 wood splitter isnt very practical. Carrying big blades never used to bother me but then again I had never carried something that weighs like 3 lbs without a sheath. I might try a baldric setup and see if that makes it any better.

I really don't want to sell it or trade it because its so much fun but I really can't justify having it. Same with my waki and scrapizashi. Hell I have like 1,500 worth of steel between the 3 that I never take out on the trail. But I know i will regret it if I sell them. :(

I think my taste in knives is changing, Im starting to really appreciate versatility and speed over pure chopping power.
 
For a while I had a B11, Modded FBMLE, and the KZII.

Sold the FBMLE to cover other smaller blades.

Really, the KZII is a truck, or day camping blade. I have taken my FBMLE and Ash1 cg along with two smaller pieces of infi on all day hikes, and not really noticed. But, I was not carying anything else besides water and jacket and light snacks for the kid. I have no illusions about carying the KZII on a 70 mile hike.

The B11 won't out chop the KZII on wood, but you can chop longer and with less fatigue. It will also cause you less grief to carry all day.

I have a heavy harness strap baldric that I wear my B11 on all the time. I keep it paired up with a CABS in an h strap sheath. Often, when hanging arround the house, I will also attach my SarQ and Glock 22. It is reasonably comfortable, but maybe there is a reason my left shoulder sits higher than my right!

My KZII sheath is a lower ride so I need to adjust the strap length on the baldric to really get a feel for the baldric carry on the KZII.
 
I came off of extensive Dogfather usage into about a week of hard KZII usage (a friend lent it to me for a backpacking trip in the whites, we build a large semi-permanent shelter for the forest service). After cutting down two rather large pine trees, I was in love. It's thicker, heavier, and the balance is better for big chopping jobs like that.
If money is no object, the KZII is the better choice. But if cash is really tight, the B11 will serve the role quite well.
 
KalEl said:
I really don't want to sell it or trade it because its so much fun but I really can't justify having it.
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No problem KalEl. I'll be glad to store it for you. I'll even pay the shipping both ways. :)

On a more serious note, maybe you should look into some quality machetes. You can get like 50-100 Tramontinas for the price of 1 KZII.
 
Hombre Secreto said:
No problem KalEl. I'll be glad to store it for you. I'll even pay the shipping both ways. :)

On a more serious note, maybe you should look into some quality machetes. You can get like 50-100 Tramontinas for the price of 1 KZII.
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I went out today and compared how the KZ II chops versus one of those $20 sogfari machetes for a variety of tasks. for brush clearing the Sog obviously won but what surprised me was how well it chopped soft wood. Mind that my Zilla has seen 3 days of very very hard use and was about as sharp as a butter knife and the sog had a brand new factory edge but the Zilla only chopped slightly better than the sog. However I severely bent the sog in the process so that lasted all of about 10 chops. I really do love my zilla butI think I will appreciate it alot more when I finally get the edge to where I want it. Busse and swamp rat make fantastic knives but their edges always suck from the factory. :grumpy: Oddly enough everything Ive ever bought from the scrap yard has had a great factory edge save for the regulator but that is understandable due to the thickness.
 
You inadvertantly left out the NMFBM :D

Yea the Resin handle on the B11 is nice and the DFLE is nice too. Don't know about the KZ other than the proto, but if you want the best chopper,, well then,,,it's not one of your 3
 
When I looked at the KZ's at the AG Russell show, Garth assured me that the NMFBM was the better chopper.

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KalEl said:
I left out the NMFBM because I think its very similar to the KZ 2.
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My TTKZ has had the edge thinned and improved by Garth. My CG NMFBM has my own ghetto satin and reworked edge. They rate pretty even in chopping.
 
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