done with locking knives???

bdws1975 said:
Hi all,

I've finally decided that I'm no longer buying locking knives.

I've spent the last year buying just about every production brand of locking knives and I have to say that I've yet to find one that worked perfectly and was really worth the hassle.

This is probably more a reflection on me than anything else, but I am at the point where I'd rather know for sure that the knife will fold if I flip it over, and deal with that limitation, than to put false trust in a locking knife.

I hope this isn't construed as trolling or being a butt, and I'm not upset with any particular company, it's just that I've finally realized that it's a lost cause.

Bottom line: I really don't need a knife that will stay open. if I really want that, I'll use my fixed blade.

thanks for letting me vent and take care,
brett
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Good call, Brett, and welcome to the club. A slippy in the pocket and a small fixed blade stashed someplace convienent will definatly handle anything you need to do. It worked for old Bill for 70 years.

Once I got used to carrying the little Buck Hartsook a friend gave me, there was no going back. Now I have a small puuko by S. Dauvi as an unfolding pocket knife. No pivot to get crud in, no lock to hang up or fail, easy to clean.



:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
thanks Jackknife. I've been going toward this for a while and finally just decided to take the plunge.

Could you point me toward the small puuko maker?

thanks!

brett
jackknife said:
Good call, Brett, and welcome to the club. A slippy in the pocket and a small fixed blade stashed someplace convienent will definatly handle anything you need to do. It worked for old Bill for 70 years.

Once I got used to carrying the little Buck Hartsook a friend gave me, there was no going back. Now I have a small puuko by S. Dauvi as an unfolding pocket knife. No pivot to get crud in, no lock to hang up or fail, easy to clean.



:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
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I don't know anything about the maker myself. The knife was given to me by a friend a few years ago, who is no longer with us. It appears to be either Finish or Norwiegin in origin, with a very heavy scandi grind on the blade. Blade is 2 inches, overall is 4 3/4 inches. Its a tiny bit smaller than a Rosseli grandmothers knife as carried by Kellam knives. Very good carbon steel with birch handle. Very scandinavian looking.

The other knife I have carried alot over the past two years has been the little Hartsook I was given. I discounted it at first, thinking it was sort of a joke, but I was wrong. The little Hartsook has been a terrificly handy knife to have. Another of the unfolding pocket knife breed. It convinced me that all those old guys I knew growing up had a handle on things. A regular pocket knife for mundane things, and a small sheath knife for heavier or dirty job use.

Like you, I've sworn off locking folders. Maybe the scandinavian people have it figured out right, why bother with locks. Just carry a strait blade.
 
thanks for the info. I'm in agreement with you. Nothing is more secure than a sheath knife.

I'll look around for a finish puuko or something.

take care,
brett
jackknife said:
I don't know anything about the maker myself. The knife was given to me by a friend a few years ago, who is no longer with us. It appears to be either Finish or Norwiegin in origin, with a very heavy scandi grind on the blade. Blade is 2 inches, overall is 4 3/4 inches. Its a tiny bit smaller than a Rosseli grandmothers knife as carried by Kellam knives. Very good carbon steel with birch handle. Very scandinavian looking.

The other knife I have carried alot over the past two years has been the little Hartsook I was given. I discounted it at first, thinking it was sort of a joke, but I was wrong. The little Hartsook has been a terrificly handy knife to have. Another of the unfolding pocket knife breed. It convinced me that all those old guys I knew growing up had a handle on things. A regular pocket knife for mundane things, and a small sheath knife for heavier or dirty job use.

Like you, I've sworn off locking folders. Maybe the scandinavian people have it figured out right, why bother with locks. Just carry a strait blade.
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I just need a nice sheath for a small fixed blade. I just can not find what I'm looking for.

I have tried the PSK sheath from BRKT and it just does not work well enough. It's too hard to put the knife back in the sheath.

I way the sheath to be at the top of my pocket so I can easily put it back when done. If I could find such a sheath, I would probably be done with folders. I cannot wear a fixed blade on my belt as that would not look right to the people I am around most of the time.
 
I'd love to carry a fixed with me as my EDC, something like an OHare river knife. (here's a link, I just love his knives: http://www.ohareknives.com/river.html) But I work in the insurance industry and I think it would alarm a few people! So I have to go folder. I've never had any trouble with the locks on any production folder from one of the major brands (buck, benchmade, spyderco, kershaw) except for one specific benchmade lockback I had. But I always test my knives when I first get them to be sure the lock is constructed properly. After that, all ok. I guess I don't understand when I read that time and again there's lock failures from respected brands. Especially so much that you'd give up on locking folders altogether.
 
yeah, it's been quite a few of the locking that have failed on me.

Really, I have just realized that I'm more suited to slippies. I've always loved them.

take care,
brett
DRider said:
I'd love to carry a fixed with me as my EDC, something like an OHare river knife. (here's a link, I just love his knives: http://www.ohareknives.com/river.html) But I work in the insurance industry and I think it would alarm a few people! So I have to go folder. I've never had any trouble with the locks on any production folder from one of the major brands (buck, benchmade, spyderco, kershaw) except for one specific benchmade lockback I had. But I always test my knives when I first get them to be sure the lock is constructed properly. After that, all ok. I guess I don't understand when I read that time and again there's lock failures from respected brands. Especially so much that you'd give up on locking folders altogether.
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I find myself wishing for a one hand opening slipjoint. I'm perfectly comfortable with such creatures. There's a Byrd as yet unreleased that's looking very interesting to me.
 
shecky said:
I find myself wishing for a one hand opening slipjoint. I'm perfectly comfortable with such creatures. There's a Byrd as yet unreleased that's looking very interesting to me.
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you should try the spyderco UKPK. sounds like it would be perfect for you.

take care,
brett
 
I like a locking blade. OP: You're saying you use a knife so 'hard' that the locking mechanism fails on you, yet you can use a knife with no locking mech. problem free?

Why not just use a quality locking blade, without putting to much strain on it?


The only time I've ever seen a locking mech. fail is if you stab something hard with a lot of force, or the knife is used as a pry bar (and IMHO nobody should be doing either with any folder).
 
actually, it's not that I abuse the knives to failure, it's that I've had too many knives where the lock failed a VERY light and simple spine pressure test.

There are other issues I've had. I won't go into them here.

thanks,
brett
ICEAGE said:
I like a locking blade. OP: You're saying you use a knife so 'hard' that the locking mechanism fails on you, yet you can use a knife with no locking mech. problem free?

Why not just use a quality locking blade, without putting to much strain on it?


The only time I've ever seen a locking mech. fail is if you stab something hard with a lot of force, or the knife is used as a pry bar (and IMHO nobody should be doing either with any folder).
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shecky said:
I find myself wishing for a one hand opening slipjoint. I'm perfectly comfortable with such creatures. There's a Byrd as yet unreleased that's looking very interesting to me.
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Case is making two right now that I know of and both are very cool functional knives. I have two of the mid folding hunter, one in the stainless and one in the CV blade steel which is my fave. Nice knives. Even comes with a pocket clip as well as the thumb stud for one hand opening and a liner lock but its a slippie with a back spring tuned to make one hand opening not only possible but comfortable. I really like the blade shape on these also. The pocket clip comes off too except on the older ones that look like pins. They are actually screws though and if you cut a couple thin slots in the heads with a thin kerf cut off disc using your dremmel you can use a small flat head screw driver to back out those screws and remove them.

The other one that I know of that Case makes this way was just released at Blade 2008. Its a Trapper Case is calling the "Trapperlock". I have not seen it yet personally other than pics to know if its got a clip on it or not but it does have a thumb stud and looks like another real winner available in three handle materials.

Brett I understand your frustration. Seems the batting average of some of the companies making what you've tried has been pretty low for you. I assure you its not typical. But if a small fixed is your cup of tea and you want to try one I liked a lot until giving it to my son and the other to my brother in law, well Bob Dozier makes a great small fixed blade and one of the reasons I mention Bob is his horizontal kydex sheath system that to me is still the best out there. It makes his knives easy to carry and in many ways they are a great tactical quick draw blade if you need it in a pinch which once done after some practice can be drawn and at the ready faster than most one hand openers and probably on par and more reliable than any Waved or auto knife and they are really great users for normal tasks too. The small Whittler or Personal Bob makes would be pretty good EDCs IMO. He makes a Wharny I am eye ballin' lately.

VCM3, that one you own by Tom is a sweet sweet looker and I'm sure knowing Tom its a classy nice performer too. What a score! I'd like that myself and I don't often warm to fixed blades these days.

STR
 
thanks steve. as always, I really value your opinion. I've contacted Mike Miller, an OK knifemaker, and we're going to work on a 2 inch bladed 5 in overall VERY small pocket fixed blade.

But you're right, I'm just plain fed up with being disappointed with the knives I've tried. I suppose I could pay 500 for a high end folder, but I am just not there.

thanks again,
brett
STR said:
Case is making two right now that I know of and both are very cool functional knives. I have two of the mid folding hunter, one in the stainless and one in the CV blade steel which is my fave. Nice knives. Even comes with a pocket clip as well as the thumb stud for one hand opening and a liner lock but its a slippie with a back spring tuned to make one hand opening not only possible but comfortable. I really like the blade shape on these also. The pocket clip comes off too except on the older ones that look like pins. They are actually screws though and if you cut a couple thin slots in the heads with a thin kerf cut off disc using your dremmel you can use a small flat head screw driver to back out those screws and remove them.

The other one that I know of that Case makes this way was just released at Blade 2008. Its a Trapper Case is calling the "Trapperlock". I have not seen it yet personally other than pics to know if its got a clip on it or not but it does have a thumb stud and looks like another real winner available in three handle materials.

Brett I understand your frustration. Seems the batting average of some of the companies making what you've tried has been pretty low for you. I assure you its not typical. But if a small fixed is your cup of tea and you want to try one I liked a lot until giving it to my son and the other to my brother in law, well Bob Dozier makes a great small fixed blade and one of the reasons I mention Bob is his horizontal kydex sheath system that to me is still the best out there. It makes his knives easy to carry and in many ways they are a great tactical quick draw blade if you need it in a pinch which once done after some practice can be drawn and at the ready faster than most one hand openers and probably on par and more reliable than any Waved or auto knife and they are really great users for normal tasks too. The small Whittler or Personal Bob makes would be pretty good EDCs IMO. He makes a Wharny I am eye ballin' lately.

VCM3, that one you own by Tom is a sweet sweet looker and I'm sure knowing Tom its a classy nice performer too. What a score! I'd like that myself and I don't often warm to fixed blades these days.

STR
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bdws1975 said:
thanks steve. as always, I really value your opinion. I've contacted Mike Miller, an OK knifemaker, and we're going to work on a 2 inch bladed 5 in overall VERY small pocket fixed blade.

But you're right, I'm just plain fed up with being disappointed with the knives I've tried. I suppose I could pay 500 for a high end folder, but I am just not there.

thanks again,
brett
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More money dosen't always mean a better lock. The geometry of the lock must be dead on for the lock to work correctly, liner and frame locks, and if not then expect failure.

I wouldn't look at your post as being trollish one bit, you simply have found a style of knife you are comfortable with and that you like. Nothing wrong with that!!:D
 
Having had a Byrd "fail" and mostly remove the index finger of my shooting hand (it went back on, just a bit ratchet-like now), I can definitely say that some locking knives arent suited for some user-specific ergonomics. Do I have anything against the design? Not at all, I was using the knife in an unsafe manner, wrong knife, wrong application, wrong grip.

That being said whatever, "light spine pressure tests" you are referring to must be completely outside of the norm of the physics of actual knife use. If they are quick light taps, the inertia of the components can and will fail, but this is in no way a reflection of the performance of the actual knife in use. No one performs rapid light taps of the back of the blade during an actual cut. I can get virtually any design to fail when absurdly tested.

The most dangerous of the common locking systems is the lock back.

Liner locks, axis locks, and piston locks are indeed very sturdy, and if you are getting them to fail, you are buying garbage knives, or testing in a completely impractical manner.
 
Price has very little to do with whether it works or doesn't. Some seem to get so caught up in the art and the look so much by going over and above in all ways there that they forget the thing has to work first and foremost. Point is I've seen quite a few of those 'high end' locking folders as much as the $40 ones for problems.

Its also worth saying for the record that serious testing is not something that I feel should be done with a brand new out of the box integral locking folder and a strong arguement could be made for any type locking folder IMO. The reason I say that is that is based on experience. Many liner and frame lock folders for example come shipped with the locks barely engaging the blade to get in there adequately to support it. This is not just productions but customs also and its usually done to increase the life expectancy of the lock before it moves all the way across the tang contact AKA "interface". Most of these type lock ups are precarious at this point and its never something I've liked seeing personally but you see it all the time in NIB folders of this type. Its best to let the lock break in and move in there supporting the blade as its supposed to before doing any real lock testing when you note the lock up is still at this stage. Use these knives like you would a weak back spring slippie until the lock gets out there better. Doing spine taps or pressure tests on the lock up at the NIB stage can be a surprise for a lot of folks even when everything is done correctly.

I often say that if most manufacturers and makers would simply put one hand over the blade spine, and, one hand over the body after locking the blade open and simply keep the fingers clear as they apply pressure to the spine trying to defeat the locks they'd see a lot of them they were getting ready to ship that could be adjusted to prevent easy defeats or even accidents when it surprises the end line user and the lock defeats with ease due to the precarious lock up.

Nothing scares me more than seeing something like a .050" thickness liner lock coming out to put all of .025" of the lock thickness in contact with the blade. Yet its out there probably in the hands of some folks right now. Go figure. What can be equally surprising though is that some that lock up this way actually pass the spine pressure tests and a spine tap with ease. Even then I'd still say to the folks using them that spine tapping or whacking a lock up that isn't full can shear the lock face. So again serious testing should be avoided until you get a good contact and let things break in. I should say now that of course this is all just my opinion but I feel its good advice also. Take it or leave it and don't think this is just directed at the OP. I tell this to anyone that asks. In other words use some common sense and you'll be fine.

STR
 
I've given up on them too...used to carry a Buck. I now carry a Benchmade Griptilian. Now I wonder why I ever thought I needed a lock-back.
 
J_Curd said:
That being said whatever, "light spine pressure tests" you are referring to must be completely outside of the norm of the physics of actual knife use. If they are quick light taps, the inertia of the components can and will fail, but this is in no way a reflection of the performance of the actual knife in use. No one performs rapid light taps of the back of the blade during an actual cut.
Click to expand...

Here in the real world that does happen sometimes, and once in a lifetime is too often.

The most dangerous of the common locking systems is the lock back.
Click to expand...

'scuze me, gotta go put on my asbestos underwear....
 
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