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Donna: Pix of another "Paintable" Kris
- Thread starter ruel
- Start date
Impressive, never seen this one before.
Donna and others, this blade is for the higher ups and the full wave pattern is called "serpent in motion". The ornate pommel resembles a cockatua, looks like ebony? The blade is not the focus of the piece.
The handle and sheath are a sign of high standing to which commoners bow to. The blade may or may not be ornate as the straps on this piece are bit different than the more 'battle' types.
Donna and others, this blade is for the higher ups and the full wave pattern is called "serpent in motion". The ornate pommel resembles a cockatua, looks like ebony? The blade is not the focus of the piece.
The handle and sheath are a sign of high standing to which commoners bow to. The blade may or may not be ornate as the straps on this piece are bit different than the more 'battle' types.
I agree, Smoke. Although the piece hasn't arrived yet, I think the blade looks somewhat sub-par from the photos. It's the mounts, though, that are of interest, especially the scabbard of exaggerated length. The kris alone is 3', already bigger than most Moro kris (~2-2.5'); the scabbard is a whopping 4'6"!
One is reminded of those huge two-handers used as swords of state or for parades. I assume this Kris had a similar function. Smoke, does Cato's book have anything to say about this?
One is reminded of those huge two-handers used as swords of state or for parades. I assume this Kris had a similar function. Smoke, does Cato's book have anything to say about this?
Ruel, Cato pretty much does say that. The more ornate, the higher the standing. In one photo, there is a large kampilan held by a bodyguard. Very ornate handle, blade, everything.
If you can find it, the old film "This Bloody Blundering Business" shows a datu with his party, one of which is carrying another large kampilan.
If you can find it, the old film "This Bloody Blundering Business" shows a datu with his party, one of which is carrying another large kampilan.
ruel, I was hoping that the oversize scabbard was an error in the picture. I think this kris has been redone unless you can give more info on this piece's history. I don't mind being wrong and I apologize for any offense.
The handle is definite Moro pattern but the blade is different. The backstrap is too short, the front doesn't resemble the elephant tusk. The front of the blade is slender and pointy ala the Indonesian kris.
What I'm saying is that the scabbard isn't oversize, it's the blade that's not matching everything else. The blade might actually have been taken out.
Remember, every kris and Muslim blade is individual. Every part is handmade by someone else. Scabbard is optional and this package is implying ceremonial purposes because the carry of this piece is impractical IMO.
Kampilan sheaths are simple wood because folks would swing the blade and let the sheath split on impact. For the bodyguards of the higher ups, they often have no scabbard but wear the kampilan on the shoulder like a soldier on the march.
I think know where you can get the book.
Email me at gsmoke@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 08-29-2000).]
The handle is definite Moro pattern but the blade is different. The backstrap is too short, the front doesn't resemble the elephant tusk. The front of the blade is slender and pointy ala the Indonesian kris.
What I'm saying is that the scabbard isn't oversize, it's the blade that's not matching everything else. The blade might actually have been taken out.
Remember, every kris and Muslim blade is individual. Every part is handmade by someone else. Scabbard is optional and this package is implying ceremonial purposes because the carry of this piece is impractical IMO.
Kampilan sheaths are simple wood because folks would swing the blade and let the sheath split on impact. For the bodyguards of the higher ups, they often have no scabbard but wear the kampilan on the shoulder like a soldier on the march.
I think know where you can get the book.
Email me at gsmoke@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by Smoke (edited 08-29-2000).]
Hi Smoke,
1. BLADE: You may very well be right; it might be a replacement. It's not so much the lack of a 'gaja'/elephant head decoration that concerns me, because I've seen a few others that lack it. What is different is the degree of tapering toward the point:
Most Moro kris have robust points to give them the heft for a massive cut, sacrificing thrust potential in the process. But my friend here seems to lack that property, and may never have been intended to be a war sword in the first place.
2. SCABBARD: I suppose alot will be answered when I get the chance to examine the scabbard itself, to see if it was hollowed to fit a really long blade, or if the bottom half is solid wood.
If it indeed originally housed a ~4ft blade, that would be nothing short of astonishing. I recall Draeger, in "Weapons & Fighting Arts of Indonesia," saying that a 4-footer in Bali was probably the largest extant Keris, but if this scabbard is the remnant of a full-bladed Moro kris, it would top that one by over a foot.
There's a MoroBlades message board; I'll try posting it there, and hope it'll help, although the page usually doesn't open for some reason.
[This message has been edited by ruel (edited 08-29-2000).]
1. BLADE: You may very well be right; it might be a replacement. It's not so much the lack of a 'gaja'/elephant head decoration that concerns me, because I've seen a few others that lack it. What is different is the degree of tapering toward the point:
Most Moro kris have robust points to give them the heft for a massive cut, sacrificing thrust potential in the process. But my friend here seems to lack that property, and may never have been intended to be a war sword in the first place.
2. SCABBARD: I suppose alot will be answered when I get the chance to examine the scabbard itself, to see if it was hollowed to fit a really long blade, or if the bottom half is solid wood.
If it indeed originally housed a ~4ft blade, that would be nothing short of astonishing. I recall Draeger, in "Weapons & Fighting Arts of Indonesia," saying that a 4-footer in Bali was probably the largest extant Keris, but if this scabbard is the remnant of a full-bladed Moro kris, it would top that one by over a foot.
There's a MoroBlades message board; I'll try posting it there, and hope it'll help, although the page usually doesn't open for some reason.
[This message has been edited by ruel (edited 08-29-2000).]
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