I'm very upset. When people carry Mace or some other pepper spray they are considered prepared and they have it just in case. When someone carries a knife they are considerd dangerous and paranoid. Knives are much more usefull. Try cutting a burger, openning a package or trimming a thread from your jacket with pepper spray. They can also be used for self defense. I hate being labled paranoid because I carry a knife. Am I just running my mouth? What do you guys think?
Double Standards
- Thread starter JakeP
- Start date
- Joined
- May 22, 1999
- Messages
- 1,474
Excellent point. Although you are more likely to be killed or maimed by a knife than mace. Mace/pepper spray is supposed to be a non-lethal deterrent.
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"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb
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"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb
I am not personally offended by anyone who has a negative attitude towards knives. It may be progressive, it may be the opposite, but I really couldn't give a F*** about what anyone short of my mother thinks about most anything unless I really feel thay can offer me some REAL information on the subject. What does a person who is blanketly afraid of knives have to tell me? Nothing. Just chill, if they ever need a knife and they ask you just tell them to go F**** off. Let them figure it out for themselves how rediculous their opinions are. If they can't change you, don't expect to be able to change them.
But, on the other hand, I am sometimes puzzled and offended by the lack of intellecual, well thought out thought on knife carry by NON-knife users.Not many people who are strictly opposed to knife carry have a very poinient reason as to WHY, if any reason at all.
Now, lets pretend I have three hands... Because here is yet ANOTHER school of thought on the issue of Mace verses the edged weapon. Mace can't cut, Mace can't really kill anyone. You get Maced, a few hours later you will be fine. You cut someone, a few hours later you could be DEAD.
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Robert Joseph Ansbro
If it can be written, or thought, it can be filmed. -Stanley Kubrick, 1928-1999
www.Cinematopia.com
I am the moderator on the forum "The Balcony" located at Cinematopia, please come support this brand new site
But, on the other hand, I am sometimes puzzled and offended by the lack of intellecual, well thought out thought on knife carry by NON-knife users.Not many people who are strictly opposed to knife carry have a very poinient reason as to WHY, if any reason at all.
Now, lets pretend I have three hands... Because here is yet ANOTHER school of thought on the issue of Mace verses the edged weapon. Mace can't cut, Mace can't really kill anyone. You get Maced, a few hours later you will be fine. You cut someone, a few hours later you could be DEAD.
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Robert Joseph Ansbro
If it can be written, or thought, it can be filmed. -Stanley Kubrick, 1928-1999
www.Cinematopia.com
I am the moderator on the forum "The Balcony" located at Cinematopia, please come support this brand new site
You say that a burger can't be cut with pepper spray, but can a knife spice it up like spray can? Seriously though, most people use a knife everyday usually in the kitchen. Even a pair of scissors is 2 knives screwed together. Tell that to the next person that wets their britchs at the sight of a pocket knife.
jeff
jeff
Anyone who faints at the sight of your folding knife in casual use deserves their neurotic inability to deal with the feelings that arise within themselves.
On the other hand, if you are startling people by doing tactical deployments of a clip carried knife to open ketchup packets at the MickeyD's or are chopping French Toast in half with swipes of a Pocket Hobbit while at Denny's, YOU have ventured to the outskirts of the laws on menacing and over the edge of good taste and discretion.
Remember that all of us who use annd carry knives on a daily basis, in one way or another, all represent one another too. If you use a knife in a reasonable manner, people tend to think of you as a reasonable person.
On the other hand, if you are startling people by doing tactical deployments of a clip carried knife to open ketchup packets at the MickeyD's or are chopping French Toast in half with swipes of a Pocket Hobbit while at Denny's, YOU have ventured to the outskirts of the laws on menacing and over the edge of good taste and discretion.
Remember that all of us who use annd carry knives on a daily basis, in one way or another, all represent one another too. If you use a knife in a reasonable manner, people tend to think of you as a reasonable person.
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 3,018
Jake, there's a problem here but it's NOT a "double standard".
Knives are indeed a lethal defensive weapon. Same as a gun. The problems the sheeple have isn't in "unfairness" in categorizing knives as being "worse" than Mace/OC - the problem is in people viewing justifiable lethal self defense AND PREPERATIONS FOR SAME in a "negative light".
I believe that for now, the solution is "shall-issue CCW", where people are able to get concealed handgun permits after a background check and training. These systems have been a huge success in the 30 states where they're in place; the sheeple are able to live with armed non-sheeple who are "gov't certified good guys". It IS technically a violation of our rights but...it works. In some states the CCW permit also allows for unlimited cutlery but in others it doesn't - the best way to open up knife carry in states like Washington would be to chain carry to the existing gun CCW system and I'm surprised they haven't tried yet. A coalition of serious martial arts instructors could probably do it.
For more info on CCW including how it's worked in the states where it's common, see my site.
Jim March
Equal Rights for CCW Home Page
http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
Knives are indeed a lethal defensive weapon. Same as a gun. The problems the sheeple have isn't in "unfairness" in categorizing knives as being "worse" than Mace/OC - the problem is in people viewing justifiable lethal self defense AND PREPERATIONS FOR SAME in a "negative light".
I believe that for now, the solution is "shall-issue CCW", where people are able to get concealed handgun permits after a background check and training. These systems have been a huge success in the 30 states where they're in place; the sheeple are able to live with armed non-sheeple who are "gov't certified good guys". It IS technically a violation of our rights but...it works. In some states the CCW permit also allows for unlimited cutlery but in others it doesn't - the best way to open up knife carry in states like Washington would be to chain carry to the existing gun CCW system and I'm surprised they haven't tried yet. A coalition of serious martial arts instructors could probably do it.
For more info on CCW including how it's worked in the states where it's common, see my site.
Jim March
Equal Rights for CCW Home Page
http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
Professor
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 1999
- Messages
- 3,418
I agree 100%. Though pepper spray can really spice up a burger
. I don't understand the argument either, other than the obvious long-range benefits of some pepper sprays over a blade, and the fact that it's non-lethal (though a blade can be too).
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Professor
Ever notice no other candy tastes quite like Pez? Oh yeah, and the BM Axis rules.
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Professor
Ever notice no other candy tastes quite like Pez? Oh yeah, and the BM Axis rules.
Gollnick
Musical Director
- Joined
- Mar 22, 1999
- Messages
- 29,258
Mr. March hit the nail on the head. Chemical sprays are perceived as a "safe", "humane", "non-lethal", purely defensive weapon.
A couple or three years ago, a man died when sprayed with OC spray by Portland police. He had a weak heart and apparently the panic and terror of the whole thing brought on a heart attack. But, such cases are few and far between.
There have also been very few cases of criminals using pepper spray. One reason for this, perhaps, is that criminals understand that these sprays (especially the watered-down non-military versions sold to citizens and used by police) are not as universally effective as the marketing would have you believe.
On the other hand, I've rarely heard of civilians making effective use of it either. This, I think, is because it usually has a safety catch; it's usually carried in a case with a snap flap; the case is attached to a disorganized ball of keys and other trinkets; and the ball is at the bottom of a purse. Typical deployment time: three minutes.
I've noticed that many people are not as taken aback by my knife as they are with my ability to draw and open it quickly with one hand. So, very often, when taking my AFCK out for utility use around other people, I'll mock fishing around in my pocket, bring it out upside down, and then open it slowly with both hands. I get far fewer alarmed responses this way.
Chuck
A couple or three years ago, a man died when sprayed with OC spray by Portland police. He had a weak heart and apparently the panic and terror of the whole thing brought on a heart attack. But, such cases are few and far between.
There have also been very few cases of criminals using pepper spray. One reason for this, perhaps, is that criminals understand that these sprays (especially the watered-down non-military versions sold to citizens and used by police) are not as universally effective as the marketing would have you believe.
On the other hand, I've rarely heard of civilians making effective use of it either. This, I think, is because it usually has a safety catch; it's usually carried in a case with a snap flap; the case is attached to a disorganized ball of keys and other trinkets; and the ball is at the bottom of a purse. Typical deployment time: three minutes.
I've noticed that many people are not as taken aback by my knife as they are with my ability to draw and open it quickly with one hand. So, very often, when taking my AFCK out for utility use around other people, I'll mock fishing around in my pocket, bring it out upside down, and then open it slowly with both hands. I get far fewer alarmed responses this way.
Chuck
- Joined
- Aug 11, 1999
- Messages
- 215
There have been several cases of people having fatal reactions to pepper and mace. I watch a lot of the Discovery Channel and there was a program about non-lethal weapons.
Just giving my input on the subject.
thanks,
Drac noroc
Just giving my input on the subject.
thanks,
Drac noroc
- Joined
- Oct 8, 1998
- Messages
- 5,403
I work in a mall knife store and daily some little girl comes in trying to pick a fight over how dangerous and disgusting knives are.
And my response is... "Do you or a member of your family use a kitchen knife"
Of course the answer is "Yes"
"Well, the only difference between your kitchen knife and.." I pull out a fixed blade that I am carrying " my knife is that I carry mine everywhere"
End of discussion.
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Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com If I fail to check back with this thread and you want some info, email me.
Check out my review of the Kasper AFCK, thougths on the AFCK and interview of Bob Kasper. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/kasperafck.html
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/index.html
And my response is... "Do you or a member of your family use a kitchen knife"
Of course the answer is "Yes"
"Well, the only difference between your kitchen knife and.." I pull out a fixed blade that I am carrying " my knife is that I carry mine everywhere"
End of discussion.
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Marion David Poff aka Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com If I fail to check back with this thread and you want some info, email me.
Check out my review of the Kasper AFCK, thougths on the AFCK and interview of Bob Kasper. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/kasperafck.html
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Meadows/1770/index.html
One person who carried pepper spray for self-defense ended up spraying herself in the eyes on two separate occasions. Once working behind a cash register a suspicious person came in and she had it ready but in the register's bill tray. Nothing happened, the guy left, she forgot about it. The way it was positioned when she went to push the tray closed she inadvertently squirted herself in the eyes so bad she fell to her knees in pain.
It happened again when closing the door of her car she accidentally slammed it on the can. When she opened the door again, the broken spray can squirted her right in the eyes again.
I don't know, she told it...we were all laughing, but I really shudder to think if that happened to her in a real situation, or if she'd been driving at the time.
Jim
It happened again when closing the door of her car she accidentally slammed it on the can. When she opened the door again, the broken spray can squirted her right in the eyes again.
I don't know, she told it...we were all laughing, but I really shudder to think if that happened to her in a real situation, or if she'd been driving at the time.
Jim
- Joined
- May 22, 1999
- Messages
- 1,474
There is more than one instance where pepper spray has seriously hurt or killed. Check out http://www.interlog.com/~cjazz/pepper2.htm to see more. This site has accumulated several articles.
The ACLU is trying to get the use of pepper spray restricted: http://www.aclu.org/news/1999/n081299e.html
Why some people have an emotional, irrational reaction to the sight of a knife and a totally different reaction to pepper spray I don't know.
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"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb
The ACLU is trying to get the use of pepper spray restricted: http://www.aclu.org/news/1999/n081299e.html
Why some people have an emotional, irrational reaction to the sight of a knife and a totally different reaction to pepper spray I don't know.
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"A knifeless man is a lifeless man"
-Nordic proverb
Hmmm.....Wonder how the public would react to someone if they casually walked into a store and picked up a can of pepper spray, sprayed the cashier in the face and robbed them? Would their be a sudden ban of pepper spray? Or maybe force us all to use a more villan friendly, watered down version? Hahaha!
Lonnie
Lonnie
As others have mentioned using mace/pepper spray isn't considered using deadly force in spite of a few deaths due to use, unlike using a knife on someone. For at least two decades knives were used in more homicides in the US than rifles and shotguns, until 1997 when non-handguns edged out knives.