Down sleeping bag problem

TwinBlade

TwinBlade

Joined
Aug 1, 2008
Messages
491
I have a GI issue extreme cold down sleeping bag. I was getting the "storage" out of it by therapeutically beating it (:D) and there was cloud after cloud after cloud of dust that was coming out of it. Considering it was in a bag, this is impossible that it collected this much dust.

It was recommended to me, or suggested rather, that mites may have infiltrated it and broken down the down filling. I cut a small slit in the bag and the down seems to me to be in tact. So, this leads me to my query of what in the world is causing all this dust that I just cannot beat out of it. When I say I have hit the bag, I mean a couple hundred whacks with a big heavy ironwood walking stick.

Does anyone have an understanding of this or knowledge as to what it may be?
 
If you know someone who has a microscope (biology department at a school or college), you could look at the "dust", and if it is mites, it will be readily appearent.

I'm old enough to remember the days when down bags were still very rare. When they became generally popular, I was first in line to get one, but only kept it a season or two....for a variety of reasons. I say ditch the thing and get a good synthetic bag to replace it. Synthetics are so sophisticated these days, not much reason to mess with down.
 
reconranger said:
I'm old enough to remember the days when down bags were still very rare. When they became generally popular, I was first in line to get one, but only kept it a season or two....for a variety of reasons. I say ditch the thing and get a good synthetic bag to replace it. Synthetics are so sophisticated these days, not much reason to mess with down.
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Down is still lighter and compresses smaller than synthetic, so for some kinds of outdoor activity (long backpacking or climbing trips), down is still the way to go.

That said, I don't own anything that is down. The idea of a wet down bag when I'm 30 miles from anywhere sort of scares me.
 
reconranger said:
If you know someone who has a microscope (biology department at a school or college), you could look at the "dust", and if it is mites, it will be readily appearent.

I'm old enough to remember the days when down bags were still very rare. When they became generally popular, I was first in line to get one, but only kept it a season or two....for a variety of reasons. I say ditch the thing and get a good synthetic bag to replace it. Synthetics are so sophisticated these days, not much reason to mess with down.
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You know what, that's a great idea. I have a microscope. Been a LONG time that I used it and do not remember the power. Maybe it will be powerful enough.

Hell of an idea. :thumbup:
 
Good luck in finding the source of the dust. Keep us posted as many folks who read and post here own down equipment.

I used to be afraid of the dreaded wet down syndrome (it seems that it ALWAYS rains when I hit the woods), but since I'm not doing any river rafting with my bag, I usually sleep in a tent or hammock and the outer shell sheds a hell of a lot of moisture, I'm not worried about having it soaked through. It takes a good deal of direct wetness to make a down bag worthless in the heat department. I'm also pretty conscientious about keeping it dry (a good stuff sack does a great job, as does a kitchen garbage bag).

I haven't found anything that is lighter or compresses better than down. A careful cleaning now and again keeps it going strong.
 
I would guess that what you're seeing is mostly a reflection of the quality of the down in the bag. The military bags use a cheap down and it likely contains a fair amount of dust and other materials. You never noticed it before because you never beat it with a walking stick. ;)

reconranger said:
I say ditch the thing and get a good synthetic bag to replace it. Synthetics are so sophisticated these days, not much reason to mess with down.
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I'm exactly the opposite....I wouldn't own a synthetic bag if you gave it to me. :)
 
TwinBlade said:
You know what, that's a great idea. I have a microscope. Been a LONG time that I used it and do not remember the power. Maybe it will be powerful enough.

Hell of an idea. :thumbup:
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I taught Biology for many years. First thing I though of. Dust mites will be gigantic, compared to things like bacteria. Should be easy to see with a lot power lens.
 
Ok, so if I have 15X eye pieces and a 4X focal lens that points at the feather, is that 60X total? I mean does it multiply?

If so, I have 60X max. Will that be enough to see a mite?
 
Mites or no mites, I would get some down specific soap and head over to a laundry mat. Toss it in a large commercial washing machine [front load] and then toss in a large dryer with a bunch of tennis balls. Then you can decide if it's toast or not. Always store in a large cotton stuffsac uncompressed when not being used.

Down is still vastly superior to synthetic. I've used plenty of high-end synthetics and they come nowhere close to the performance of down in terms of warmth to weight and compressibility. A good quality, well looked after down bag could literally last a lifetime.
 
My wife used to work in a museum curating clothes. When anything new and suspect came in, it went in a freezer for a week. You may want to do that before washing it. Just put in a garbage bag first.
 
Great suggestions gents. I will do all of the above.

I pulled some down out and a lot of it seems to be crumbly...almost like it is dried out and falling apart. It also seems to be what is causing the dust. I couldn't find any mites on 60X and they say after some searching, that you can see them at 20X.

Is it possible for down to simply wear out?
 
TwinBlade,

I think the feathers can "wear out" as they simply break down into tiny pieces.

My favorite down bags are made by Marmot and Western Mountaineering...go check 'em out and you'll be throwing out your GI Issue bag in a heartbeat!

Frosty
 
I hate to say it, but yea pitch your GI down bag. I've used as a grunt and they were crap then...when in "serviceable" condition.

I agree with Frosty - i have a Marmot CWM -40F (DryLoft), Western Mountaineering Puma -20F (DryLoft), Marmot Pinnacle 15F (Dryloft) and they are all superb sleeping bags. I've had the CWM and Puma out in -30F temps and they were great. The Pinnacle is my general "go-to" for >32F sleeping bag and it's comfort rating is maybe a little ambitious - such is Marmot. The Western Mountaineering bag is for when temps get into the teens and below. Western Mountaineering is conservative with their temp ratings - and i'm a "cold" sleeper.

As to using down in cold temps.... if it's below freezing and i encounter enough water to saturate my sleeping bag i've bigger problems to worry about. If it's above freezing and i saturate my sleeping bag i've bigger problems to worry about. In any case, if i saturate my sleeping bag - i'm about to have an epic and not just b/c my sleeping bag is wet. I've done something radically stupid and will suffer whether i'm in wet clammy synthetic insulation or wet, clumpy down insulation.

Wet = cold unless it's 85F and sunny.
 
To be honest, I've been seriously considering a Arc Alpinist down quilt or maybe a backcountry blanket, but I've been choking on the idea of the ~$450 price tag.

As a result, now I'm wondering how hard it would be to make my own down quilt or blanket. Step 1, I suppose, is to get my wife to teach me how to use her sewing machine. :D

For a down sleeping system, the idea of a quilt or a blanket makes a ton of sense to me. Down insulates via its loft, so anything underneath you is going to get compressed and so not insulate very well. So why not save the weight by eliminating the part of the bag that goes between you and your sleeping mat?
 
The quilt is an interesting idea. I've read of people who made the Rayway quilt. But somehow... I just have to doubt the warmth and ability to keep out drafts. I know the Big Agnes bags aren't stuffed on the bottom and they get good reviews. I can't see paying $400-$500 for a quilt with a 2.5 inch loft though. I just ordered a bag I found with a 4" loft, 90/10 goose down fill, approx 3# total weight, center top zipper ( for a Franklin). Reviews I have read mentioned using it unzipped as a quilt. I don't see why this concept wouldn't work with most regular mummy bags that have a full zipper though.
 
Frosty_1 said:
TwinBlade,

I think the feathers can "wear out" as they simply break down into tiny pieces.

My favorite down bags are made by Marmot and Western Mountaineering...go check 'em out and you'll be throwing out your GI Issue bag in a heartbeat!

Frosty
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+1 for Western Mountaineering [USA]

but I would also add Feathered Friends [USA] and Valandre [France].

OP - Decent down should last a seriously looooong time. I've had some 0F rated down bags for 15 years and they're just as good as day one.
 
fmajor007 said:
I hate to say it, but yea pitch your GI down bag. I've used as a grunt and they were crap then...when in "serviceable" condition.

I agree with Frosty - i have a Marmot CWM -40F (DryLoft), Western Mountaineering Puma -20F (DryLoft), Marmot Pinnacle 15F (Dryloft) and they are all superb sleeping bags. I've had the CWM and Puma out in -30F temps and they were great. The Pinnacle is my general "go-to" for >32F sleeping bag and it's comfort rating is maybe a little ambitious - such is Marmot. The Western Mountaineering bag is for when temps get into the teens and below. Western Mountaineering is conservative with their temp ratings - and i'm a "cold" sleeper.
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I will be perfectly honest here. It will be a cold day in hell before I pay $650-800 on a sleeping bag. :D:p I will carry 18 flannel shirts and long johns before I ever pay that. I don't care how good it is.

Wanna throw a -10° down sleeping bag my way that is in the $300 or less range?

:thumbup:
 
Codger_64 said:
The quilt is an interesting idea. I've read of people who made the Rayway quilt. But somehow... I just have to doubt the warmth and ability to keep out drafts. I know the Big Agnes bags aren't stuffed on the bottom and they get good reviews. I can't see paying $400-$500 for a quilt with a 2.5 inch loft though. I just ordered a bag I found with a 4" loft, 90/10 goose down fill, approx 3# total weight, center top zipper ( for a Franklin). Reviews I have read mentioned using it unzipped as a quilt. I don't see why this concept wouldn't work with most regular mummy bags that have a full zipper though.
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Do you get drafts from a blanket when you sleep in a bed? If not, then why do you think the quilt wouldn't work? A lot of people swear by them. And I mean A LOT.

Unzipping the sleeping bag so as to use it like a quilt is what some people do, but then you don't save on any weight because you're still carrying around the bottom part of the bag. On my mummy sleeping bag, which has a hood, I have to think that the hood would kind of be in the way. Certainly it wouldn't be usable.

All of which is why I'm thinking about making my own. I suspect that I can make a 20 degree quilt for considerably less money than what one would cost me from someone else who made it for me. Of course, there's the whole "learning to sew thing." Since the first one would be a total experiment, and since experimentation always costs money, I don't know that I'd really save any money.
 
Do you get drafts from a blanket when you sleep in a bed?
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No, but the blanket is way wider than my body, and there is seldom any wind in my bedroom.

If not, then why do you think the quilt wouldn't work?
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If there is to be a weight savings, the quilt would have to be as narrow as a sleeping bag. And I would have to sleep on my back and not roll around.

I'm not saying a quilt won't work. It might just be the cat's meow for you. :)

But taking an existing bag, cutting off the hood if you must, and using it unzipped as a quilt would, it seems to me, be an easier, simpler approach to making and stuffing a quilt from scratch. But DIY gear is usually a fun challenge, and rewarding when you wind up with something you want for less than storebought.

Check out the kits from Ray and Jenny Jardine.
http://www.ray-way.com/Quilt-Kit/index.htm
 
Spending a little more for a good bag can be a smart investment. A good down bag shouldn't dry out & crumble into dust so it's probably the quality of the bag that's the problem. I'd love to know if the microscope turned up mites.
I've used Feathered Friends in the Arctic and Antarctic and that's tough to beat although I've seen some serious gear from Valandre. Some Japanese photographers got off on an Antarctic island for a year and that's the gear they had. Primaloft is good stuff for a synthetic.

Synthetic is much cheaper but it doesn't really compare in terms of lightness, compressabilty ( really important for packing if you're walking or kayaking ), long life and warmth, but the main drawback is that it won't insulate if wet and it's tough to clean and dry.
Every now and then a decent bag comes up on ebay for a decent price. Also MEC and REI usually have some pretty good bags at good prices. You don't need an 800+ loft bag in a PTFE outer that can cost as much as a small car.
Some guides use two bags, one in the other, with a liner, depending on the weather, and that's a very flexible system that some of them swear by.
 
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