Down the Slippery Slope

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by malazo:
Hmmm... very interesting comments everybody...</font>
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Yeah, "interesting" and sometimes, scary.

However, the alternative is an Authoritarian Society where you are not even allowed to carry a pocketknife? I mean, what's up with that?

Not even Mace for women? I mean, where do you draw the line in the sand? Some of us lament the fact that we want this ban lifted or that restriction eliminated. But the fact of the matter is, once rights are lost, they are usually gone forever.

I would love to own an Automatic Weapon, but all of the good ones are about the price of a car if you are lucky enough to find one in mint condition. The reason for that is because they are drying up. I think that's a shame.

Being able to afford to feed the pig would be another matter entirely.
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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by scott475:
Such a terrible misunderstanding we have of our own history. Of course, that is no surprise. A few months ago I heard Peter Jennings say our government was based on that of England. I know he is Canadian, but did he never hear of the American Revolution, in which we fought AGAINST the English system? M-O-R-O-N!</font>
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Actually, Jennings is partially correct. The Founders of this country were trying to secure the rights they enjoyed as British Subjects, as Englishmen, that had been trampled.

What they did that was so drastically different, radical, was they dared to say that Rights are handed down to the People from a Creator, then The People "loaned" that power to Elected Representatives.

This was radically different from England where the basic model was that "The Creator" handed down the power to a Monarch.

 
We must never forget, the price of freedom in ETERNAL vigilance. Eternal means it never stops. The American people have been lulled into a sense of security thinking "This is America, Land of the free and Home of the brave. Nothing like that can happen here." Well, as soon as it is no longer the Home of the brave, it will cease to be the land of the free. [We did round up all the Japanese Americans into concentration camps in 1942, after all] It is the cycle of history. Governments have always strived to enslave the people and have the power of the government in the hands of the few instead of with the people. The 2nd Amendment is the first among equals. It guards the others. When it is gone[due to executive orders, it can be suspended with the stroke of the president's pen], the rest of the Constitution will fall.

A week or so ago the 24 crewmen of the EP-3 returned home to Whidbey Island NAS here in WA state. They had a big ceremony complete with Comrade Chairman[Governor] Gary Locke, Senators Blurray and Cant[think]well, Congressmen..........Every single one of them were introduced as "The Honorable.....", and as I sat watching it I thought to myself, wait a minute, these people are not honorable, and since when in is the position of senator, congressman, governor supposed to be an exalted position. They are supposed to be OUR servants. They work for US! See how far we've come to treating them like royalty? Now they make careers out of destroying our Constitution and freedoms. AND WE LET THEM!!!!!

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. We Americans stopped being vigilant a long time ago. We deserve what we get.

"They're gone, let's see what W does."

If W wants to win points with me, he would nullify the S&W agreement and drop all lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, right now. Haven't heard anything about that, have ya?

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Brigadier
Beretta 92 FS nut and Wave-aholic
"And for this cause God shall send them stong delusion,that they should believe a lie;" 2 Thessalonians 2:11
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them." Ephesians 5:11
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Brigadier:
If W wants to win points with me, he would nullify the S&W agreement and drop all lawsuits against firearms manufacturers, right now. Haven't heard anything about that, have ya?</font>
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He has been in Office just over 100 days and he has had a couple of heavy things to deal with and I would imagine extortion committed from the last Administration's HUD Secretary is pretty low on the totem pole.

 
True, W's been in office just over 100 days, but his administration did pay enough attention to S&W to grant them an approximate 1.5 MILLION dollars for more research into the development of "smart guns."
I guess he is like any other politician and will play both fields when necessary.

 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Don Rearic:
He has been in Office just over 100 days and he has had a couple of heavy things to deal with and I would imagine extortion committed from the last Administration's HUD Secretary is pretty low on the totem pole.

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Yeah, but it would only take 5 minutes and one phone call to AG Ashcroft and the new HUD secretary and tell them to handle it. Bam, it's done. The boycott of S&W would stop, they'd be able to sell guns, they'd have work, everyone would be happy.

Keep watching, W is going to disappoint a lot of people.

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Brigadier
Beretta 92 FS nut and Wave-aholic
"And for this cause God shall send them stong delusion,that they should believe a lie;" 2 Thessalonians 2:11
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them." Ephesians 5:11
 
You're conveniently forgetting something. Smith & Wesson is owned by a British Concern. Alot of Manufacturers told the Clinton Administration to get screwed on that deal. S&W did not for a reason. It is because of who owns them more than anything.

They don't deserve sales or to be "saved" until someone else buys them as far as I'm concerned.

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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
Any firearm in the hands of a Smart Person is a, "Smart Gun." As far as the electronic nonsense is concerned, I'll pass on it. That was a waste of 1.5 million dollars.

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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
I really enjoyed all the posts on this topic. I am glad that there are people who have some rational thinking about liberty, self defence and law enforcement. Unfortunately, there appears to be a very vocal few commenting on this topic. I am an NRA Life Member and even the NRA is acting like government. I asked the NRA how much would they expect me to donate each year and NOT mail the solicitations designed to obtain money. I also asked to be taken off the mailing list of these solicitations. The NRA would not give me an answer and still solicite money under varyious guises. I am also surprised that I have not heard any response, positive or negative from law enforcement on my post? Dick
 
I'm a Life Member of the NRA also, but they will never get another cent out of me. As a voting member, I get sick and tired of the current leadership telling me which people to vote for when it comes time to vote for board members. As a result, I vote a straight ticket against their recommendations. The only pro-gun organizations I support financially now is GOA, CCRKBA, and SAF. If we would get them to the size and strength of the NRA, I think LaPierre would be fired immediately in oreder for them to "compete" with the others.

Yes, I too think the NRA acts just like the government - compromise, compromise, compromise..........

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Brigadier
Beretta 92 FS nut and Wave-aholic
"And for this cause God shall send them stong delusion,that they should believe a lie;" 2 Thessalonians 2:11
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them." Ephesians 5:11
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by budrichard:
I am also surprised that I have not heard any response, positive or negative from law enforcement on my post?</font>
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Well, I think the Police Officers that frequent the Emerson Forum are loathe to comment on that particular post you made in a negative fashion because they do not want to see this as a split among people in here.

As for a positive response...I don't know. Men like John Hollister are good Men and they are good Cops.

One problem I have personally witnessed in Maryland is, the Good Men are retiring. They are being replaced by Automatons that the American Military and Academia are producing.

They've got their nasty little Horseshoe Head haircuts and an attitude to match it, you say, "Good morning" to them in the 7-11s around here, and some of them will literally sneer at you, or look up and say absolutely nothing at all.

I know these things are unpopular to say. But the face of Law Enforcement is changing.

I had a friend, who I took shooting and I taught him how to field strip my Sig as the 220 strips like the 226 which was going to be his issue gun. [The reason for that was, he had heard horror stories and I have heard them as well, about slides being shot off the frame and he did not want to look like a fool in class] He was Pro-Gun and everything, when he cleared the Academy, he changed. He had not even finished with his FTO and he had almost turned 180 degrees.

That's because it was beat into his head that he had an enemy. And that enemy was people who own guns. I know that is unpopular and this is a very Anti-Gun State. I know that is what they are doing because the good Men on the same Department are telling me that.

He's quick to tell you if he gets caught speeding in that new sports car, "If I get pulled over, I'll flash the tin and go about my business."

I don't know what the answers are Dick, I don't know the quick and easy solution to the problem(s).

I do know that if I do not know an Officer here where I live, I avoid them like the plague, because at the mere sight of a pocket clip. Life as I know it might be over.

I'm not talking about some fancy Waved folder either. I'm talking about something like a simple CQC-7 without the Wave.

"Well, what does 'CQC' stand for? Close Quarters Combat, right?"

What am I supposed to say? I don't have a right to defend myself, that's it in a nutshell. I don't speed, I wear the seatbelt and I use the turn signals. That's about it Man.

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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things

[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 05-05-2001).]
 
Don, of course smart guns are a waste of money. We share the same ideas where this is concerned.
My point is that W really can't be trusted any more than any other politician. While he is pro gun, he still has to cowtow to the anti gun/self defense crowd. His political career may well hinge upon this.
Rather than letting S&W hang, W handed them a temporary reprieve in the form of $1.5M.

I have to agree with Brigadier to a degree. I think that in order to save his career, W will pull some boneheaded stunts and leave us out in the cold. The alternative was certainly no better, and if I had to do it over I would vote for W again, but that's a subject for another thread.

 
Phillip and Others,

I think you are going to agree with my following statement.

George W. Bush has already crippled the Gun Control Movement in The United States of America for four years. At the very least, two more until the Democrats have a shot at Congress/Senate in off-year Elections.

How did he do this? From the time the Election was Certified and he was Officially the Winner, Handgun Control, Inc. ejected a Press Release to the effect that they would not be wasting their money on Federal Controls for this time frame.

They are going to concentrate on the States. But most "liberal" States already have massive gun control in place and alot of HCI's screwy ideas do not play well in the rest of the Country.

What Bush has done is eliminate the Mouthpiece the Gun Control Movement had in The White House. We have seen it all before.

The exploiters of tragedies, the profiteers of misery, these vultures that hang around school and other mass shootings with a gleam in their eye, waiting to show the bodies come out wrapped in white on a stretcher...

They have no Man in The White House now, to come out and have a crocodile tear coming out of one eye, biting his lip, clutching a Bible he does not believe in, to say how evil guns are, how evil the NRA is, and how massively evil it is for law-abiding Americans to own weapons.

That Era has ended, much like Elvis, Bubba has left the building.

Sometimes, it is not what a person does, it is what they do not do that counts. And he is a prime example of this dynamic in Politics.
 
Yeah, but don't forget his turncoat daddy and what he did to gun owners in 1987(?) with banning the importation of certain "assault rifles". W may not sign any new gun control bills, he may not pose for the cameras like Klinton did, but like you said Don, "..it is what they do not do that counts." If W allows the BATF to ban this and that without laws being passed thru Congress, then how is he pro-gun? Klinton put the bureaucracies in place so that even if W does nothing, we can still lose our rights thru regulation, not necessarily legislation. That's why I want him to undo the S&W agreement and have AG Ashcroft drop all federal suits against the gun manufacturers. Then he is doing something proactive and pro gun. Not just sitting by and letting lawsuits and bureaucrats do his dirty work.
And just because HCI said they will only concentrate on the states, doesn't mean the likes of Feinstein, Daschel, Schumer, et al, won't be salivating over a 50/50 Senate. Hell, McCain's "Campaign Finance Reform" bill made it illegal for special interest groups[read NRA, GOA, NSSF,...] to run ads withing 60 days of an election! Talk about "The Incumbent Protection Act".

Enternal Vigilance!!!! Even with a Republican in the White House.

I heard a joke the other day: Do you realize the the three top men in our government are named Bush, Dick, and Colon? Yeah, we're f***ed.

In my Signature line:
"And for this cause God shall send them stong delusion,that they should believe a lie;" 2 Thessalonians 2:11

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Brigadier
Beretta 92 FS nut and Wave-aholic
"And for this cause God shall send them stong delusion,that they should believe a lie;" 2 Thessalonians 2:11
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them." Ephesians 5:11

[This message has been edited by Brigadier (edited 05-05-2001).]
 
I understand what you are saying. However, let's see if he is like his Father before we condemn him to that.

 
As a cop and new usual suspect, I have read most of this with interest. I wouldn't have responded except that budrichard was wondering where the cops are. Unfortunately, I agree with most of what has been said here. I say unfortunately because I wish things were not the way they are. England is not a free country. It's citizens do not have the right to defend themselves. As for America, one thing that helps us and that will hopefully be helped by President W. is the fact that states have the right to govern themselves. Clinton tried to undermine states rights at every turn and make more and more offenses federal. My wife is from Maryland, I was stationed at Curtis Bay in the Coast Guard in the late 80's. I am from Kentucky and we came here after I got off active duty. kentucky and Maryland might as well be two different countries. I personally suggest that if personal rights to self defense are a primary concern you study the laws of various states and try to move to one that let's people be free. Here, we have no waiting period, no state enacted gun bans, legal open carry and easy to get CCW permits and our constitution recognizes that all people have right to "bear arms in defense of themselves and of the Commonwealth"

As for the new breed of cops, I have been on the job for 7 1/2 years and I agree that younger cops tend to A-holes. I was one also when I graduated the academy. They told me I had all kinds of power and the state behind me and that everyone without a badge was not my friend. I also worked for a very militaristc department at that time. Most young cops tend to grow out of this in about 3 years. They find out the hard way that nobody wants to cooperate with a robot. Rookies will always need time to grow into the job. Just like society has a few people that are just a-holes from birth, so does law enforcement. Most folks in society are good and so are most cops. As for me, I don't expect too many good things from our new president just because I think the the democrats are going to try to hurt him at every turn. But I am optimistic that good folks at least have some breathing room and we should have heard the end of the weekly scandal. Sorry if this post is kind of disjointed, I tried to hit everything quickly.

Oh, yeah, the UN. They are a non started. I worry about alot of things but not that. And as amember of the National Guard, I can tell you that we have had this discussion there, and if the order to collect guns ever comes out, there won't be a national guard, at least in KY. My oath was to follow the LAWFUL orders of those appointed over me.
 
removed, its not worth it.

[This message has been edited by memnoch (edited 05-08-2001).]
 
Don & Lewis, excellent posts. Lewis, at one time I was a senior manager of a large nuclear utility. One of the many departments that reported to me was Nuclear Security(I am not talking watchman). I directed that department from a bummed out organization that was continually being fined by the Nuclear Regulatory Commision to a first rate proud department. I did it by having meetings with both bargaiing and management, listening and helping them solve their problems. When interfacing with other governmental agencies i.e FBI, DOE, when these agencies started to be unrelalistic, I simply told them my reasons and said NO. My concern is that the current crop of governmental and law enforcement believe that they know better than I do, what is best and right. I also have a Florida CCW permit. Having passed all the security checks for both the CCW and Nuclear Security, I certainly am no more a risk than any member of law enforcement and should be looked at that way. Unfortuneatly, I am not. Again, Lewis thanks for your post. Don, I tried not be too negative about law enforecment, but it came out anyway. Most of good friends in law enforcement that I respected have retired. Dick
 
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