DPX HEAT/F 3D Ti w/ Niolox

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Muaddib1116

Joined
Dec 26, 2010
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I just received my self-awarded birthday present, a DPX HEAT/F with the 3D machined Ti handles and Niolox blade. It's my first DPX, and it's pretty nice. The most immediately striking thing is the heft (no pun intended) and solid feel of it, especially on a knife this size. I do really like my G10 Dragonfly 2 (which I just swapped a ZDP-189 blade into), but there's something to be said for having such a stout, stubby blade with a full size grip. The F&F is very nice, the machined handles are very pretty and all the edges are well finished, although the blade isn't centered as well as I'd like. I think I can live with that though. DPX apparently uses some sort of grease with gold dust in it... sparkly. The blade action is buttery smooth and the lockup is very solid, with no blade play in any direction.

My only real gripe with the knife is the sticky lock. I had read a lot of reports about how HEST's and early HEAT's had a lot of lock stick and needed a very long break-in period, but I had also seen a number of reviews of this limited edition model saying that it came with perfect, no-stick lockup. Well, mine has significant (to me) lock-stick. I guess I'll have to break it in, and maybe even polish the faces a little. Honestly, with how popular ti-framelocks are these days, I'm still so surprised that people aren't studying CRK's lock geometry more.
 
Muaddib1116 said:
My only real gripe with the knife is the sticky lock. I had read a lot of reports about how HEST's and early HEAT's had a lot of lock stick and needed a very long break-in period, but I had also seen a number of reviews of this limited edition model saying that it came with perfect, no-stick lockup. Well, mine has significant (to me) lock-stick. I guess I'll have to break it in, and maybe even polish the faces a little. Honestly, with how popular ti-framelocks are these days, I'm still so surprised that people aren't studying CRK's lock geometry more.
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- I believe that CRK carbidizes the titanium lockface, which is why it couldn't stick as easily. I wouldn't polish the lockface. If anything, take a pencil and put some graphite on the lockface. It should make it easier to unlock.
 
Congrats on your DPx HEAT/F Ti. One of the nicest titanium scales ever!

I wish knifemakers would address the titanium sticky lock issue. LionSteel as the maker of many of the high end knives for DPx has that option with a stainless steel lock bar insert. It's just that for cost savings DPx chooses not to do that.

A couple of related threads on the HEAT/F and LionSteel steels:

 
tokerblue said:
- I believe that CRK carbidizes the titanium lockface, which is why it couldn't stick as easily. I wouldn't polish the lockface. If anything, take a pencil and put some graphite on the lockface. It should make it easier to unlock.
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CRK actually uses a sort of heat treat for their titanium lockbar face, not carbidization. Regardless, that is only a part of the reason why CRK's have such smooth stick-free lock, yet have no lock-slip issues. It's all about the lock-bar-face to blade-tang-face geometry. The Spyderco Sage 2 came close to being as good, but I hear it was hit or miss. Aside from that knife, I have yet to see another frame-lock with as good an interface. Most ti framelock makers grind a really steep angle onto the blade tang, and when the softer titanium lock bar sticks they claim that it is part of the design. Chris Reeve, the guy who invented it, does it right, and anyone who says that ti framelocks are supposed to be sticky is wrong.

I'm sorry for the rant, I didn't mean to go off about it, it's just a subject/issue that bugs me. I'll use graphite to help during the break-in period.

RamZar said:
Congrats on your DPx HEAT/F Ti. One of the nicest titanium scales ever!
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They are really very pretty. It sort of make me want to get the Elmax version with the 3D Ti and G10 slabs. Having recently moved to Boston has renewed my interest in small blades. I'm also keeping my eye out for a Strider PT CC.

A couple more observations about the knife. There is quite a bit of branding on the knife. Each side of the blade has a logo of some sort, there's the 091/250 on the blade spine, and there's even a Lionsteel logo on the lockbar cutout. Also, for how thick and stout the blade/knife is, the blade stop pin is a surprisingly standard sized diameter. I'm sure it will never become an issue for me, but I do hope it's a hardened pin.
 
I've had a HEST folder or two since they came out and always will. You have purchased a very good knife.

The blade will probably center as you get used to the knife or tweak the pivot. There is a little bit of break in required for the HESTs I've had because they tend to be delivered tight. It may take a while.

I'm not one who minds slight lock stick. It actually gives me tactile assurance the lock was tight and proper. I will tell you that on my 2.0 what stick there was lessened as it broke in and was never what I would call 'major.' At times there is still a little but it's not even a concern....it's too nice a knife. You'll see as you use it. :)

As a side note, I can't imagine how small a percentage of quality knife owners will ever see the replacement of a lockbar cutout due to wearing out the first one....seems to me it's just another screw to loosen or part to fall off disabling the knife. As if some of these companies are going to be around long enough to even offer the replacement or still carry it in stock in 10 years.... It's debatable I guess, but that's another thread.
 
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EChoil said:
As a side note, I can't imagine how small a percentage of quality knife owners will ever see the replacement of a lockbar cutout due to wearing out the first one....seems to me it's just another screw to loosen or part to fall off disabling the knife. As if some of these companies are going to be around long enough to even offer the replacement or still carry it in stock in 10 years.... It's debatable I guess, but that's another thread.
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I look at lockbar inserts as I do sticky locks, that it's the symptom of makers not knowing how to make a framelock properly. There are countless Sebenzas out there that don't have lock stick and haven't had the lock engagement shift after 10-15 (maybe more) years of use.

As for the knife, I'm realizing how attractive a knife this is. The machined handles are very pretty, the pattern gives it a jeweled quality. The color lightly beadblasted ti and the very attractive blade finish go well together. And it has very nice lines and curves. The bottle opener cutout is the only real eyesore on the knife. I also wouldn't mind some sort of insert to use if you don't want to use the pocket clip, but the empty mount slot is hardly glaring.

It doesn't have the clean line, simplicity type beauty that Sebenzas have, but it's obviously not trying to. I'd post some pictures, but I suck at them and wouldn't do the knife any justice.

I'd sort of be interested in a HEST/F with 3D Ti handles.
 
Muaddib1116 said:
I just received my self-awarded birthday present, a DPX HEAT/F with the 3D machined Ti handles and Niolox blade. It's my first DPX, and it's pretty nice. The most immediately striking thing is the heft (no pun intended) and solid feel of it, especially on a knife this size. I do really like my G10 Dragonfly 2 (which I just swapped a ZDP-189 blade into), but there's something to be said for having such a stout, stubby blade with a full size grip. The F&F is very nice, the machined handles are very pretty and all the edges are well finished, although the blade isn't centered as well as I'd like. I think I can live with that though. DPX apparently uses some sort of grease with gold dust in it... sparkly. The blade action is buttery smooth and the lockup is very solid, with no blade play in any direction.

My only real gripe with the knife is the sticky lock. I had read a lot of reports about how HEST's and early HEAT's had a lot of lock stick and needed a very long break-in period, but I had also seen a number of reviews of this limited edition model saying that it came with perfect, no-stick lockup. Well, mine has significant (to me) lock-stick. I guess I'll have to break it in, and maybe even polish the faces a little. Honestly, with how popular ti-framelocks are these days, I'm still so surprised that people aren't studying CRK's lock geometry more.
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Don't even worry about that sticky lock. I have two HEST/F folders and they were both pretty horrible, but it did not take that long to break them in. It's weird too, because mine did not break in gradually...in fact, they almost seemed to get a little worse and then "poof" the lock stick was gone. They're both as smooth as my Sebenzas now (no BS).
 
Muaddib1116 said:
I look at lockbar inserts as I do sticky locks, that it's the symptom of makers not knowing how to make a framelock properly. There are countless Sebenzas out there that don't have lock stick and haven't had the lock engagement shift after 10-15 (maybe more) years of use.

As for the knife, I'm realizing how attractive a knife this is. The machined handles are very pretty, the pattern gives it a jeweled quality. The color lightly beadblasted ti and the very attractive blade finish go well together. And it has very nice lines and curves. The bottle opener cutout is the only real eyesore on the knife. I also wouldn't mind some sort of insert to use if you don't want to use the pocket clip, but the empty mount slot is hardly glaring.

It doesn't have the clean line, simplicity type beauty that Sebenzas have, but it's obviously not trying to. I'd post some pictures, but I suck at them and wouldn't do the knife any justice.

I'd sort of be interested in a HEST/F with 3D Ti handles.
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As I've pointed out in here, I have a large Sebenza that sits in a drawer. And I am aware of their friction free closing. Most of my folders are that way.

If lockbar inserts exist to solve lock stick more than the wear problem, so be it. Either way I'm only saying I'm skeptical of the need for them and wonder how many it will really benefit. Another screw and something else to loosen.

The HEST is a great outdoor folder. That cutout works as a bottle opener but it's actually one of the first commercially produced wave features. And mine came with a clip replacement screw, btw.

It doesn't have totally clean lines because it's a 100% functional cutter with good point strength and a very tough blade. It's certainly not a Sebenza but at my house it sees a lot more of me than the Seb does.

Don't make a mistake and buy one for office, opening mail or metrourban carry. There are prettier knives for that.
 
Muaddib1116 said:
I look at lockbar inserts as I do sticky locks, that it's the symptom of makers not knowing how to make a framelock properly. There are countless Sebenzas out there that don't have lock stick and haven't had the lock engagement shift after 10-15 (maybe more) years of use.

As for the knife, I'm realizing how attractive a knife this is. The machined handles are very pretty, the pattern gives it a jeweled quality. The color lightly beadblasted ti and the very attractive blade finish go well together. And it has very nice lines and curves. The bottle opener cutout is the only real eyesore on the knife. I also wouldn't mind some sort of insert to use if you don't want to use the pocket clip, but the empty mount slot is hardly glaring.

It doesn't have the clean line, simplicity type beauty that Sebenzas have, but it's obviously not trying to. I'd post some pictures, but I suck at them and wouldn't do the knife any justice.

I'd sort of be interested in a HEST/F with 3D Ti handles.
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Couldn't agree more on sticky locks. I have a small collection of Sebenzas and none of them have ever had lock stick. That said, none of them fly open as easily/quickly as my HEST/F folders either.

I've just never been able to understand why the HEST/F's couldn't come from the factory like already broken in. Breaking them in resulted in a sore thumb for a few days on both of mine. The day I got my first one, I was pissed off and ready to send the knife back. I held off because of how much I liked everything else about it. Once it broke in, I fell in love with the HEST/F and bought myself another one not too long after.

They're some of my favorites....feels like a whole lot of knife for only having a 3" blade, and the ergonomics are what I consider ideal...contours are great, beveled edges to help eliminate hot spots, and the jimping is actually useful and comfortable.

I can't bring myself to buy a HEAT because of the size...I like knives that fly open with ease and I don't see it happening with that short of a blade. What I'm chomping at the bit for is the HEFT/F to come out...a slightly larger DPx flipper is gonna be bad news for my wallet, and may be the knife to put DPx Gear on a whole lot more peoples' radar. No way I'll only end up with one. :D
 
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I love the size , the grip and the beefy blade. But as I posted on the heat thread in the Lionsteel forum I had quite a couple of issues with it. Sharp edges around the lockbar cutout that bite when locked open. Lockbar tension too low. Sticky lock problem solved by brushing the contact surface. Worst: the screw that holds the clip and the glassbreaker was too long. I could not tighten it down all the way, because it kept hitting the inner tube of the standoff resulting in a clip that was way too loose. Had to grind the screw shorter and rebend the clip a bit so it had contact with the lockbar when open. That was quite a bit of adjusting and tweeking for a knife with "legandary" lionsteel QC and for a knife with a 200+ $ streetprice.
 
mactitan said:
I love the size , the grip and the beefy blade. But as I posted on the heat thread in the Lionsteel forum I had quite a couple of issues with it. Sharp edges around the lockbar cutout that bite when locked open. Lockbar tension too low. Sticky lock problem solved by brushing the contact surface. Worst: the screw that holds the clip and the glassbreaker was too long. I could not tighten it down all the way, because it kept hitting the inner tube of the standoff resulting in a clip that was way too loose. Had to grind the screw shorter and rebend the clip a bit so it had contact with the lockbar when open. That was quite a bit of adjusting and tweeking for a knife with "legandary" lionsteel QC and for a knife with a 200+ $ streetprice.
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Hm, which version do you have? Because aside from the sticky lock, mine has none of those issues.
 
I received the elmax version on the first of November. Yes it had a sticky lock,after two weeks, its smoothed right out. I liked the knife so much, I purchased another with the D2 steel.
It also had a sticky lock,approximately a week later its cleared right up. To note: it didn't take a lot of opening and closing, to right the stickiness,just normal use.

Kinda reminds me of my Emersons,sticky for a short time, then clears right up.
 
So, after a weekend of compulsively and aggressively cycling the blade/lock (and a pretty sore thumb, on both hands), the lock has broken in perfectly. Honestly though, it was quite a bit of work. The residual "stickiness" left is well within my acceptable level (really, it's almost non-existent), surpassing a number of my CRK's. Additionally, I can press the lock further in, pretty much as hard as I want, with no affect on the lock disengagement, which I don't think I could say for most of my CRK's. If it had just came this way, with the lock already broken in, it would be very close to meeting the F&F level of a CRK for much less money.

The blade centering is noticeably off, but not much worse than a couple oddball CRK's I've seen. The edge bevel near the tip is a little asymmetrical, I'm guessing Lionsteel hand sharpens these like CRK does? And the lockbar cut path and blade tang lock surface have pretty sharp edges that could stand to be edge-broken, which CRK does. If it came with a broken in lock, as well as the aforementioned "issues" addressed, then it would be a legitimate challenger to the F&F crown.

Edit: Mactitan, I just realized that maybe you meant the same thing when you said "sharp edges around the lockbar cutout". I thought you were talking about the machined cutout with the Lionsteel etching that allows the lockbar to flex more easily.
 
Sometimes it still surprises me how much any tiny change can affect a tightly toleranced knife. I decided to strip, clean, and re-grease my HEAT/F, and upon re-assembly I found that the blade centering was now pretty much perfect. I'm really not sure what I did, but I must have flipped one of the washers over or maybe flipped one of the standoff barrels. To be clear, I had previously attempted the standard method of re-centering a frame/liner-lock blade by trying to loosen the body screws and shift the scales before re-tightening. That method just doesn't work with tightly toleranced knife construction. Interestingly enough, the approx. 0.015" the tip moved changed the tang lock-surface angle enough that the lock no longer interfaced perfectly. A few hours of watching top gear and playing with the lock brought that back to perfect as well.

So, blade centering freaks, try flipping washers or swapping standoffs, it might surprise you.
 
I guess this is the best thread to ask this, instead of creating a new one.

I am looking to buy a Heat, are the differences in the steels worth the cost differential, or is it primarily which looks you prefer, and whether those said looks will allow me to personally justify the upgrades?

Is there a common "sweet spot" where people feel that the quality in steel/scales vs. price doesn't warrant going to the next tier?
 
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NJBillK said:
I guess this is the best thread to ask this, instead of creating a new one.

I am looking to buy a Heat, are the differences in the steels worth the cost differential, or is it primarily which looks you prefer, and whether those said looks will allow me to personally justify the upgrades?

Is there a common "sweet spot" where people feel that the quality in steel/scales vs. price doesn't warrant going to the next tier model?
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To tell the truth, I have the D2 with green G10 and the more costly elmax version.
I am just as happy with the D2, as the more costly version. For edc the D2 is a keeper, the elmax is for show and tell. :p
 
For the most part I've grown away from focusing my knife choices around how "super" the steel is. As long as it's decent (AUS-8/440C are my low end) and it has a good heat treat, then I'm generally fine with it. That being said, if a knife comes in a few different steels, and the price difference isn't objectionable, I have no problem buying the better steel version.

As far as my decision making process with the HEAT/F, people rave about D2, Elmax has a great rep., and I heard only positive things about Niolox, so the steel selection was really a wash for me. My decision was focused more on the different handle scale options that were available. I knew I wanted the 3D machined scales, and I found a good deal on the limited edition full Ti version, so that's what I went for. I like the knife so much that I'm very seriously considering getting my hands on the Ti/G10 Elmax version.
 
Do you find the sculpted Ti to be slick while wet or with cold/clammy hands?
If that is the case, do you feel that the g10 will negate that?
 
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Like all full-ti handles, it's not going to be all that grippy when wet. The texture helps a little, I would rate it about as grippy as a lightly scotchbrited Sebenza or a factory Spyderco Sage 2. It could benefit (grip-wise) from a more aggressive bead-blast finish (something on the level of the factory Sebenza finish). That's part of the reason I'm considering the Ti/G10 version - for rainy days. Although, it is hard to tell from the pictures just how grippy that 3D machined G10 is. I bet it's fairly smooth G10, but that will still be grippier than Ti when wet.
 
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