Drilling holes for pins AFTER heat treat

Matthew Gregory said:
Pretty sure that won't work with air-hardening steels, as they're meant to harden... In air. I suppose it might work for some of the simpler stuff, though. How do you keep the heat from getting too close to the edge? I can't imagine you getting a single spot on the knife red hot without it being a few hundred degrees an inch away from the red.
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I did this with 5 chinese cleavers that I believe were stainless steel. A friend wanted a knife that could cut a fillet of chicken katsu into strips in one cut. The cleaver was of course a little wider so I didn't have to worry about getting the heat real close to the edge.


Anywho, I don't think the tang would get hot enough to really mess with the heat treat? I was doing kitchen knives that had a thinner blade though, a thicker blade might have more of a problem. I figured that the metal table on my drill press also worked to suck away some of the extra heat. Perhaps it could even be done over a block of aluminum with a small hole in the middle. The spot annealing is actually pretty fast. The metal heats up pretty quickly so we aren't talking about an extended exposure to the heat. The way I did was to anneal the spot and then drill with another bit but it might even work to just use the same bit and drill right through, then you could dunk it in water to quickly cool it off. Once the metal turns red hot it starts cutting through like buttah.
 
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I suppose these are all viable means of putting holes through something in a pinch, and rather than pursuing why i would choose not to do it that way, I'd prefer to keep the thread on track... Hope I don't peeve anyone off for curbing the derail!

I'm looking for a consistent, repeatable means of putting accurate holes in hardened steel, and I think these carbide drills are an answer. Carl from Lakeshore Carbide help me source them, and he wants me to do a bit of footwork for him to determine if there's any genuine interest in them. If so, he'll try to optimize the cutting geometry for our application, make them in-house right here in the USA, and offer it in sizes that would be beneficial to knifemakers. Needless to say, if it's just my dumb ass that insists on doing it this way, it hardly makes sense for him to go through the trouble!

SO - if you're interested, perhaps you might want to send them an email or call them.

Lakeshore Carbide
 
The spot annealing with a drill is more than likely in the sub-critical range for air hardening steels. I can't see 1800F+ temps being achieved with this method.

Edit: cross-posted with Matthew's request to keep the thread on topic:foot:
 
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It looks like a fair deal. I've used a carbide spade bit for drilling holes to pin a guard.
 
I understand, Matt. Sorry for talking about how to drill thru a hardened tang with a carbide tipped bit in a thread with the title "Drilling holes for pins after heat treat". :)
 
Matthew Gregory said:
I suppose these are all viable means of putting holes through something in a pinch, and rather than pursuing why i would choose not to do it that way, I'd prefer to keep the thread on track... Hope I don't peeve anyone off for curbing the derail!

I'm looking for a consistent, repeatable means of putting accurate holes in hardened steel, and I think these carbide drills are an answer. Carl from Lakeshore Carbide help me source them, and he wants me to do a bit of footwork for him to determine if there's any genuine interest in them. If so, he'll try to optimize the cutting geometry for our application, make them in-house right here in the USA, and offer it in sizes that would be beneficial to knifemakers. Needless to say, if it's just my dumb ass that insists on doing it this way, it hardly makes sense for him to go through the trouble!

SO - if you're interested, perhaps you might want to send them an email or call them.

Lakeshore Carbide
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My apologies, I wasn't sure if you were exploring other ways to do this or not. I do believe that you are correct that these types of drill bits are going to provide a cleaner and more precise sollution to the dilema. If I were going to drill a hole in something I wanted to look real nice I would prefer such a bit as you mentioned.
 
Knock it off, you guys - I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers about veering off (except perhaps you, Stuart:D).

Eyeeatingfish, it's reeally not a big deal - I just started the thread with the intention of opening a discussion about these drills. Everyone's got a method. Mine just seem to be more difficult. ;)

Also, to re-veer off topic, I'm sure no one is approaching annealing temps, especially considering annealing requires lots of time at temp. However, you could certainly reduce hardness with heat, and that was my point about temperature. 1400 degrees in a tiny spot is still going to radiate heat an inch away at 400 degrees, I'll wager, and that WOULD wreck my .004" thick edge on a .090" thick chef's knife.
 
all these feathers laying around! I would be concerned about that heat migrating to that awesome thin edge too.
 
Matthew Gregory said:
I suppose these are all viable means of putting holes through something in a pinch, and rather than pursuing why i would choose not to do it that way, I'd prefer to keep the thread on track... Hope I don't peeve anyone off for curbing the derail!

I'm looking for a consistent, repeatable means of putting accurate holes in hardened steel, and I think these carbide drills are an answer. Carl from Lakeshore Carbide help me source them, and he wants me to do a bit of footwork for him to determine if there's any genuine interest in them. If so, he'll try to optimize the cutting geometry for our application, make them in-house right here in the USA, and offer it in sizes that would be beneficial to knifemakers. Needless to say, if it's just my dumb ass that insists on doing it this way, it hardly makes sense for him to go through the trouble!

SO - if you're interested, perhaps you might want to send them an email or call them.

Lakeshore Carbide
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Hey Matt. I think I would be interested in having one like for a JIC type thing. I read Jantz description of their carbide bits, and they kinda made me nervous with "Are brittle" and "No Warranty" . Worried my little bench top drill press may not be up to snuff???
 
I think it's all going to come down to how solid your setup is. I suspect, if you're like me, you'll have to give it a try and see!!!

OR

Avoid this problem entirely and pre-drill your holes! :D

I tried using carbide drills with a drill press ages ago, when I was naught but a wee lad in knifemaking, and always snapped them, but I suspect that had more to do with inexperience than hardware failure...
 
Sam Salvati said:
I want one, where do I order it
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As Lakeshore isn't stocking these, Sammy, I'd say you're better off getting them from Jantz or one of the big supply houses, if you're in a hurry. Otherwise, drop Lakeshore a line and tell them you want some!
 
Norseman Drill makes a drill with carbide tip straight shank with 2 straight flutes.
 
PT Doc said:
Norseman Drill makes a drill with carbide tip straight shank with 2 straight flutes.
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When I was looking for them I saw that USA Knife carries a Norseman 1/8th with a carbide tip brazed on. The advantage is about half the cost of a full carbide bit.
 
I picked up a couple different sized bits from Texas Knife Supply to enlarge holes in kit blades & they seem to be working well on my new Porter Cable drill press from Lowes. They resemble masonry bits. The guy at Texas knife said to use Pam for the lubricant & run them around 2000 rpm. I think I was running them at about 1600 IIRC and they worked well but did require some pressure. IF these don't have a long life, I'm going to get some carbide bits from a local machine shop supplier that my dad recommended to me.

0303151500
 
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