Drugstore bought mineral oil on stones?

Since mineral oil is pretty inexpensive, I just go with that now. Plus, its clean, doesn't smell and did I say cheap?

However, back when I had to sharpen (as opposed to "want/like to") it was mostly the garden tools, machete and mower blades and once in a while some kitchen knives. I had a carborundum stone and norton combo india stone. At at the end of the day, no offense to anybody, an oilstone is just a rock. A natural or man made rock. The oil keeps them from clogging and I used whatever I had at hand on the bench....tap fluid, 3-in-1, mobil1, mom's sewing machine oil or kerosene. Why go out and buy an expensive little bottle of norton honing oil with a garage full of lubes? I never thought or cared much about it. I never had a problem and even if they had melted down once a year, its a $20 stone. I guess if i had a arkansas surgical black i might have thought twice but i was doing lawn and garden work and didn't spend money on expensive stones.

Now, waterstones are a different (and expensive) breed. The resins are more delicate and oil or chemicals can damage some of them. I only use water on them.

I've heard people complain both ways, but personally I find oilstones less messy than waterstones and I like the feel better, even if it takes a bit longer since they are not as aggressive cutting.
 
I use USP mineral oil from the pharmacy for my Norton Crystolon and India stones. It's cheap, food safe, and a little goes a long way.
 
It's so funny. We put a man on the moon almost 50 years ago but can't arrive at a consensus as to the best way to lube a sharpening stone. Or come to think of it, there's no real consensus as to whether or not most stones need lubing at all.

I've been all over the internet reading about this and i've found one constant. Only one group seems to say unequivocably that lubing with honing oil is absolutely mandatory for good sharpening. And that's the group of companies that sell it!

I see all the references about oil and "floating" metal pieces. The metal is not floating away to the sky so it's either floating in the oil or floating then settling on the stone's surface depending, i suppose, on oil viscosity and metal weight.

Either way, the blade still contacts these little metal fragments as it's being stroked, right? How can that be good for sharpening?

I'm thinking of getting two interrupted diamond stones, fine and coarse, and a 1000 grit arkansas stone and using nothing but water to clean the diamond stones after use and water to clean and lube the arkansas stone when the metal scrapings start changing the stone's appearance.

The interrupted diamond stones have all those little spaces for the metal to nest in and stay out way of the edge as it's being stroked. And i'll use water on the arkansas when it looks like it needs it.

What the heck, it's worth trying.

Anyone see anything i'm missing with this?
 
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The reason there isn't a consensus is that pretty much any of the approaches will work. It's like asking why there is nota single consensus flavor of ice cream. Pick one at random and go for it.

I often use DMT diamond hones dry just for the convenience of it. They don't really clog much and can just be rinsed off when you are done.

Water would probably work fine on a Arkie. It is, after all, just a piece of rock.

The only reason to float off the metal swarf as you are sharpening is so that it doesn't build up. If you ever get the pores clogged on a SiC stone or glaze the surface, you're going to be spending some time reconditioning the stone.

When I am done with a sharpening session using oil stones, I put a few more drops of oil on the stone and rub it around with my fingers, which helps pick up any particles into suspension, and then blot it dry with paper towels which absorb the oil and the swarf, so no real build up. I have tried using them dry and was not pleased with the results.
 
jc57 said:
The reason there isn't a consensus is that pretty much any of the approaches will work. It's like asking why there is nota single consensus flavor of ice cream. Pick one at random and go for it.
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jc, thank you. The ice cream analogy is perfect!
 
On the (relatively minor) point of the interrupted-surface diamond stones, the idea of the swarf being collected in the recesses is way overblown, and probably more speculative than factual. These hones work great, and there may be other, more subtle reasons for their design; but just as much swarf collects among the diamond grit as it does within the recessed areas, probably more in fact. I use both types (interrupted and continuous) regularly, and I'm always looking for the extra swarf neatly collected in the recesses on the interrupted hones; it's never that apparent at all, and wiping the hone with a Windex-dampened rag pulls a lot more swarf from the diamond surface itself, than from the recesses on the hone. It makes sense that the 'dust' of the swarf, like any other fine dust, will tend to hold onto and collect on rougher surfaces a lot more than on smooth surfaces; so the field of diamond grit, being much rougher than the smooth-bottomed recesses, is bound to hold onto most of it anyway.

See pic below; this is after some grinding of a 1095 blade (Schrade) on a DMT Dia-Fold hone. I laid down a white t-shirt over a towel, sprayed the t-shirt with some Windex and pressed the hone's surface into the t-shirt, leaving a clear pattern of the collected swarf on it. Note how relatively clean the 'dots' are, having collected almost nothing, and how much swarf has been picked up from the field of diamond abrasive. Unless the hone were completely neglected, absolutely filthy and unable to hold any more swarf (in which case it likely would stop grinding anyway), most swarf removed from the blade will simply stay where it was cut, as opposed to being swept into or collected within the dots. And the rag + Windex is the easiest way, by far, to keep the hone working anyway. Just moisten the rag (or a microfiber towel works very well) with the Windex and wipe it down after 3-5 minutes of grinding. Keeps it very clean and steadily-grinding that way. There's no reason not to get one of these hones, if you're thinking about it; they work well. But I wouldn't really consider the dots' supposed ability to neatly collect the swarf a significant factor in that decision.

For me, the use of a lube is just to prevent swarf from sticking to the hone while working (as opposed to preventing it's buildup altogether), which helps minimize the effects of clogging, and secondarily about the feedback it provides, which is an entirely subjective thing and a matter of individual preference. The stones still need cleaning to prevent heavier buildup over time. Some methods of lubing the stones are more conducive to easy cleaning than others, such as using dish soap & water for lube; cleanup afterwards is nearly automatic in the process.


David

mykem said:
It's so funny. We put a man on the moon almost 50 years ago but can't arrive at a consensus as to the best way to lube a sharpening stone. Or come to think of it, there's no real consensus as to whether or not most stones need lubing at all.

I've been all over the internet reading about this and i've found one constant. Only one group seems to say unequivocably that lubing with honing oil is absolutely mandatory for good sharpening. And that's the group of companies that sell it!

I see all the references about oil and "floating" metal pieces. The metal is not floating away to the sky so it's either floating in the oil or floating then settling on the stone's surface depending, i suppose, on oil viscosity and metal weight.

Either way, the blade still contacts these little metal fragments as it's being stroked, right? How can that be good for sharpening?

I'm thinking of getting two interrupted diamond stones, fine and coarse, and a 1000 grit arkansas stone and using nothing but water to clean the diamond stones after use and water to clean and lube the arkansas stone when the metal scrapings start changing the stone's appearance.

The interrupted diamond stones have all those little spaces for the metal to nest in and stay out way of the edge as it's being stroked. And i'll use water on the arkansas when it looks like it needs it.

What the heck, it's worth trying.

Anyone see anything i'm missing with this?
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The point of oil is to prevent the stone from being coated with metal. Friable stones will continue to release abrasive, but stones like the Norton India that dish very, very slowly, will get clogged because they aren't continuously releasing abrasive. My Spyderco ceramic stones clog fast because I don't use anything on them. The metal builds up and then I have to remove it with barkeepers friend powder. There's no consensus because no one is really studying this stuff in depth and releasing detailed reports. Many stones and approaches work. For your regular Norton India and Crystolon stones I suggest using some kind of oil or something to prevent them from clogging up and not cutting.
 
mykem said:
It's so funny. We put a man on the moon almost 50 years ago but can't arrive at a consensus as to the best way to lube a sharpening stone. Or come to think of it, there's no real consensus as to whether or not most stones need lubing at all.

I've been all over the internet reading about this and i've found one constant. Only one group seems to say unequivocably that lubing with honing oil is absolutely mandatory for good sharpening. And that's the group of companies that sell it!

I see all the references about oil and "floating" metal pieces. The metal is not floating away to the sky so it's either floating in the oil or floating then settling on the stone's surface depending, i suppose, on oil viscosity and metal weight.

Either way, the blade still contacts these little metal fragments as it's being stroked, right? How can that be good for sharpening?

I'm thinking of getting two interrupted diamond stones, fine and coarse, and a 1000 grit arkansas stone and using nothing but water to clean the diamond stones after use and water to clean and lube the arkansas stone when the metal scrapings start changing the stone's appearance.

The interrupted diamond stones have all those little spaces for the metal to nest in and stay out way of the edge as it's being stroked. And i'll use water on the arkansas when it looks like it needs it.

What the heck, it's worth trying.

Anyone see anything i'm missing with this?
Click to expand...

Give it a try, as you observe, there is no consensus.

In my experience the interrupted pattern on the diamonds does help with swarf buildup. The active region of the plate loads up and then it spills over into the openings. Often one can see the swarf migrate there almost immediately. Continuous surface diamonds if being used for a longer period of time, will load up to the point it can be felt, and observed in the grind speed slowing down. Is possible to glaze the abrasive with spent swarf and a light rubdown with the fine side of a SIC stone will notably improve the grind action.

With Arkansas, the worst that will happen is the surface become glazed and require lapping. With much use and water as the surface lube this is a virtual certainty, but it won't happen overnight. My personal recommendation for both of these is a very thin film of mineral oil, as it will give the longest use with no additional maintenance. That said I do use water from time to time on my diamond plates for light usage, but switch to oil if I've a lot of surface area to work.

Yes, the oil will float the swarf and if a vitreous stone it will also float a good percentage of the released abrasive. On vitreous stones it also seems to promote abrasive release. All together it keeps the surface in great shape. Water generally will not float the swarf and abrasive without some sort of binder release to make a mud (per most waterstones).

I used soapy water for a number of years (and recommended others do so as well) and dealt with occasional lapping of my stones. Finally tried oil and took very little time for me to become 100% convinced based on side by side testing with the same stones. It is a better way to go on all stones and films with the exception of those made to be used with water and some natural silt/sand stones. Just as the big companies sell honing oil, they would also sell little bottles of water (with additives of course!) if they thought it was a good idea, so don't imagine they sell it just to get more of your $. After all, water's been around for a long time.

Either will work, if using water I'd advise adding a surfactant/soap of some sort.

Martin
 
I love mineral oil. When I get a new stone I'll dip it in, rub in oil with my fingers, then put it in a plastic bag to soak up the rest. When I clean the stone, I dip a toothbrush in mineral oil and scrub, then flick the brush across the surface to flick away the slurry. After its clean, one more dip for the brush to apply a coat to the stone and let it soak in.

Connor
 
redeagle66 said:
I've used, and use, drug store usp mineral oil and even leftover baby oil we had in the house. They are both 98% pure pharmaceutical mineral oil. The drugstore oil has a 2% vitamin additives for its laxative use which makes it a bit thicker. The baby oil has 2% fragrance (usually another oil anyway). Both work well and will not damage a stone. Most thin or light oils are just 90%+ mineral oil anyway with additives. For example ballistol.

People have been using mineral oil, canola, olive oil, atf and motor oil and I've rarely heard of damage to a stone. I use the mineral oil because it's cheap and safe.

I've used it on Norton crystolon and India stones, and Arkansas soft and hard.
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Yep on the Farm out at the Farm shop all the man made stones out there were lubed with motor oil or ATF. The only damaged stones I've seen in the past 50 years were either wore out or they been dropped and broken.
 
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