dry welding using stainless foil?

Fred.Rowe

Fred.Rowe

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
May 2, 2004
Messages
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Is anyone doing this?

Using high temperature stainless foil to dryweld billets.

The product I have seen will handle 2000 fh.

What do you think?

Fred
 
I use it as a liner in a steel canister to prevent the canister from welding to the contents. Works good for that. If there is a foil thick enough to make folds and not burn out at 2400 degrees you wouldnt need a canister.
 
My only concern besides holding up at welding heats would be how it holds up under the hammer. I suspect you'll get some tears, especially around the edges of the billet. Maybe wrapping it up a couple of times will help. The foil I use is good up to 2100.

--nathan
 
Bruce Bump said:
I use it as a liner in a steel canister to prevent the canister from welding to the contents. Works good for that. If there is a foil thick enough to make folds and not burn out at 2400 degrees you wouldnt need a canister.
Click to expand...

I have been getting good welds at 2200 degrees with canisters using stainless tubing, but the only foil I have seen is good to only 2000fh.
I think thats a little low to weld.
Does foil tend to burn out where it is creased?



silver_pilate said:
My only concern besides holding up at welding heats would be how it holds up under the hammer. I suspect you'll get some tears, especially around the edges of the billet. Maybe wrapping it up a couple of times will help. The foil I use is good up to 2100.

--nathan
Click to expand...

I wouldn't think after the initial weld, it would make any difference if you lost the ss wrap.

Where did you find the 2100 degree foil?

Fred
 
Fred.Rowe said:
I have been getting good welds at 2200 degrees with canisters using stainless tubing, but the only foil I have seen is good to only 2000fh.
I think thats a little low to weld.
Does foil tend to burn out where it is creased?
Click to expand...

I tried this once Fred. It was a disaster. The foil simply couldn't put up with the forge environment and fell apart. You're probably better off using a stainless can or just welding up all the seams....

-d
 
Thanks for the heads up on that.

Its hard to find box stainless locally so I have been welding 1 1/4" cable inside round stainless tubing using 1084 powder to take up the void.
That welds really well and gives you a nice pattern.

I guess I'll look around for something a little thicker than the stainless foil.
There are some possibilities with using it I think.

Trying new techniques is great fun.:thumbup:

Fred
 
Tracy at USAknifemaker has the 2100F rated foil.

As for holding up under the hammer, I guess you're likely using a press anyhow to achieve the weld, so never mind on that point.

--nathan
 
silver_pilate said:
Tracy at USAknifemaker has the 2100F rated foil.

As for holding up under the hammer, I guess you're likely using a press anyhow to achieve the weld, so never mind on that point.

--nathan
Click to expand...

:oYour point would, of course, be valid when using a hammer.

I do use a press for welds.

I'll get some of the 2100 foil for inside mild steel cans as Bruce suggested; I can try it out as a wrap also and see how it holds up.

Thanks for the information, Fred
 
:thumbup:

I'd hate to try and dry weld a canister billet with a hammer :p. My mind was on the wrong track when I posted my original response.

--nathan
 
Fred,

Another thing just occurred to me. I've done the stainless foil inside a mild can before, and it worked OK, but if you soak for too long at too high a heat, you can weld the stainless foil....ask me how I know :rolleyes:

What does work well is coating the entire inside of the can with Wite Out. The white pigment is titanium dioxide, which will not weld to anything. You will have a really tight press fit when you're done (I had to grind off corners of the can and separate it with an air chisel) but that shouldn't be much worse than separating the stainless foil...

-d
 
Fred, I don't know how much difference you'll find between "2000F" and "2100F" foil. Mostly I think it's differences in vendors' claims for the same stuff. There are only two common types of "everyday" stainless HT foil, Types 309 and 321. Type 309 is the higher temp foil, and I've seen it rated 2000, 2100, 2200 by different places. I think it's all the same, personally. After that, a lot will boil down to how thick it is. 2thou is typical, but you can sometimes find 3thou. I recommend going by the alloy more than the temp claim.
Even 309 isn't very happy up at 2200 for very long at all. I would recommend double bagging your billet to give more protection. Still, I wouldn't plan on getting more than one welding cycle out of it... you'd better be "good" the first squish of that Claiborne press. ;).
 
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Re: Coal Creek Forge.
Fred if your referring to no flux Damascus,then my answer is yes but i don't use any foil of any kind.
Steve

Steve, I am curious about what your methods are to forge in a neutral environment without the aid of any flux. Blacksmiths of the past did not have the advantage of borax compounds available today! What techniques do you employ to achiveve your results? Cold shuts, do you experience these with your methods??
Johnny
 
i did a heat treat on cpm10v with 321 foil at 2175f
it did keep decarb away but i ended up welding it to the blade blank and ha to grind it off
that was a Al plate quench and i welded it to the blade
jsut so you know
i will however never try again that temp with 321 foil (i didnt have any 309 at the time)
 
Thanks for the feed back guys. You have saved me from a lot of experimenting.

Fred
 
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