Dual grit testing !

Have you considered cutting on an end grain cutting board instead?

Personally, I use an end grain cutting board to give the edge the least wear from cutting into the wood. Not using an end grain board dulls an edge much faster than the rope itself does.
 
777 Edge said:
Have you considered cutting on an end grain cutting board instead?

Personally, I use an end grain cutting board to give the edge the least wear from cutting into the wood. Not using an end grain board dulls an edge much faster than the rope itself does.
Click to expand...
If there is a bur ? Then it can help . ( Remove the bur ) .. I do it sometimes if I think a bur is being stubborn .
 
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Re HomeSlice and dual grit !

Quite a few assumptions have been made ! Why I did it differently ! To see if those assumptions held water or were merely assumptions based on limited testing of the theory of Dual Grit .
I don't question Dual Grit , but how you get Dual Grit or create it - Yeah ill question that ! I think there is more than one way to skin a cat .

So = Questions need to be asked !
1) Is it dual grit that is increasing edge retention ?
2) Or is it simply coarse grit that is increasing edge retention ?

I can already tell you that coarse grit works most of the time .. So more questions .
3) What grit is the most effective ?
4) In regard to Dual Grit , which combination is the most effective ?
5) Can we have our cake and eat it ? ( Smooth cutting & edge retention )
6) How about some serious stropping ?

Now another question I have to ask ! Just how many people are testing / using dual grit sharpening ?
Because quite frankly - it works !
And the more people that try it / test it / the larger the body of information ..
This is not ROCKET SCIENCE ... Anyone with the right grit sharpening tools should be able to "Dual Grit Their Way" and then say YAY or NAY !

The way HomeSlice does it - is intricate .. The way I did it ............. Was Bush League !
Maybe I need to do a video to show how easy it is one a Cheap / Affordable / anyone can use / Guided Knife Sharpener or Fixed Angle Knife Sharpener .. ( Maybe that's an idea )
Certainly looks to be a lot of potential here for testing .

My advice .... Don't talk about it .... Do it ! ( Just do it ) .
 
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old4570 said:
If there is a bur ?
Click to expand...

No, just in general. Cutting on an end grain board is much better for edge retention. The wood fibers part and the edge gets protected more when cutting into an end grain board.

This means that your edge testing is more accurate, as most of the abrasion is from the media you're cutting and not from the wood board.
 
I see ... The thing is .. Since I do the same thing .. Its the same thing ( test ) .. It's not like Im changing it . ( Knife to knife )
And I have already verified that the "Variable" , is small enough to be negligible . Because the test is repeatable .
So if changing something out ( wood board ) or changing the angle to go with the grain nets me another 50 slices ( lets call it 10% )
It does not matter because the test is done the same way . Where I want more slices is in real use , the test is the test ( it's a test ) .
And the test needs to be consistent over time so that results are comparable . I'm not chasing more slices Cos Of The Test , Im chasing more slices Cos Of The Edge . ( If that makes sense )
 
Part 2 Dual Grit Edge Testing = Kershaw Highball XL D2

This was one mighty disappointing knife for it's price point .
Edge retention was sorely lacking ,

200 @ 22 degrees / 220 Wet stone grinder edge
300 @ 22 degrees / 60 grit Wet stone grinder edge
200 @ 20 degrees / polished guided edge
250 @ 18 degrees / polished guided edge
250 @ 18 degrees / 60 grit Wet stone grinder edge
850 @ 18 degrees / Dual Grit 240/800

Those results are rather poor for D2 .......... But we have a documented knife to play with !
The current edge should still be 18 degrees , so we will keep that . Even though it was a roller .
If it rolls , just have to broaden the angle ( take it back to 22 )
And yes , the Kershaw is poor performing ... Cos the IXL outperformed it with it's mystery steel blade .. even the Mtech does better ( 3cr13mov ) .
Anyways ...... I will do a video of my sharpening process ..
 
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Ok , the Bush League Method !
Dual grit on a cheap N nasty fixed angle sharpening system !
The first thing I do is mark the edge ( colored marker pen )
Then I set the edge , sharpen till both sides do the Bur thing .
Then 240 grit one side and 800 grit the other side ,, 20 Passes each side .
Then I repeat with 10 passes
Then I repeat with 5 passes ( you can double up or triple up on the 5 passes depending on how that bur is going )
Then I do one pass each side till I'm happy ..

The idea here is to minimize the burr as much as possible ( Which is counter to HomeSlice's theory I guess )
Yes , I want dual grit ! But do I want a Super Bur ? So far it seems to be working without the super bur , but we are only 3 knives into testing ( 4th one here being sharpened for your entertainment )
And my curiosity !
Can this previously disappointing knife .............. not disappoint ? ( that 18 degree edge has a tendency to roll after all )

 
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Oh dear ! Bush League Dual Grit Edge saves the Kershaw !
The previous best for this knife was 300 slices ... 22 Deg 60grit Grind ( wet stone grinder )
DG ? - 850 without a fail .. Yeah , I called it a day as there was a distinct increase in drag thru the paper where the blade hit the wood .
It was still passing , but I think I have sort of maybe / possible proven something ? ( Maybe ) .

So the edge created on the video did 850 without a Fail ...
That's a BUSHLEAGUE DG edge making a very ordinary knife into a Super Knife ( can compete with high grade knife steel )
Ok ....
240/800 Diamond DG edge looks to work ..
Now I might have to test some Variables ...

 
Very interesting indeed! Would be nice to see a full 240 grit edge and full 800 grit edge compared against the 240/800 dual grit edge. I assume only the 240 grit will compete with the dual grit in edge retention, so maybe testing the full 800 grit edge would be a waste of time?
 
I already tried 400/800 which resulted in no gains ..
And I tried 240/240 with the IXL which did net gains , huge gains .. ( With what I would call very unremarkable steel )
But yes ..
A) I will conduct further testing
B) Anyone that want's to play - please feel free to do so ..
C) For now , I believe I have proven what I need to . ( To myself anyways )

It's probably not how you make/form/create the dual grit edge , but rather that you have a dual grit edge ( by what ever method your comfortable with )

Just depends on how Toothy an edge people will tolerate ( Cos these edges are toothy )
And what combinations of grit will give net+ results .
So if you have a Survival Knife (?) in a Bug Out Bag (?) ...
You might want to consider making that edge ( possibly / maybe ) 100% longer lasting .
So far , I have been testing with very average knives and boosting performance way out of their weight class .
What is it they say ? You can lead them to water - but you can't make them drink !
 
Manly Comrade D2 ( Rubbish ) Gets @ Dual Grit 240/800 edge .
Yes , one of the most overpriced junk knives I own gets a dual grit edge !
The Manly was/is a 150/200 slice knife costing over $100 Bananas ..
We are talking about a $100+ knife performing like a budget knife .. ( That's not good )
Anyways ! .. Can the dual grit edge lift this knife's game ? ( Gona find out )
 
Ok , we have a result for the Manly Comrade D2 ..
Previous best 200 .. ( I considered this knife a RIP )
Dual Grit 240/800 Diamond cut edge ( guided ) does a 550 Fail .
That be 350 more slices ..
Or as a % - some 150% more ..

Or .. Think of it this way .. Instead of getting 20MPG , you are now getting 55MPG ...
Or .. Instead of earning $200 for 10 hours work , you are now getting $550 for 10 hours work ...
Can you feel that ? Is that something you could live with ?


I think we need another Poor Performing Knife to test Dual Grit .. ( Certainly looks like - Dual Grit gives you Game )
 
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old4570 said:
Ok , we have a result for the Manly Comrade D2 ..
Previous best 200 .. ( I considered this knife a RIP )
Dual Grit 240/800 Diamond cut edge ( guided ) does a 550 Fail .
Click to expand...

Interesting. How did the same knife compare with a 240 grit (single grit) edge at the same sharpening angle?
 
777 Edge said:
Interesting. How did the same knife compare with a 240 grit (single grit) edge at the same sharpening angle?
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No idea .. I'm not doing 240/240 right now ..
I did it with the IXL cos the Dual Grit Gain was so small .. ( Poor blade steel ? )
This entire thread is for Dual grit . And 240/240 was Super Toothy .. ( Wood Saw VS Hacksaw )
I have one more knife to Dual Grit , and then I might do some 240/240 and see what happens .
The Manly was re sharpened 240/800 and put away .

I really need poor performing knives to test these longer lasting edges ..
And once I have some results , then maybe go to better performing steels and see what outrageous results occur ( If any )
 
old4570 said:
I have one more knife to Dual Grit , and then I might do some 240/240 and see what happens .
Click to expand...
That will be very interesting and a good one-on-one comparison to dual grit, using 240 on one side versus single low grit 240. Keep us posted!
 
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Single low grit with a very light touch minimal high grit finish of only 1 or so stroke per side also yields good results and strictly speaking could also fall into the category of "dual grit" sharpening because you don't remove the low grit scratches, you just refine the burr with the lower grit in this case - especially if doing trailing edge only finishing strokes.
 
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777 Edge said:
Have you considered cutting on an end grain cutting board instead?

Personally, I use an end grain cutting board to give the edge the least wear from cutting into the wood. Not using an end grain board dulls an edge much faster than the rope itself does.
Click to expand...
Vadim tested cutting boards and found no benefit to end grain boards. He found that high-density polypropylene boards were best for edge retention. http://knifegrinders.com.au/SET/Chopping_Boards.pdf
 
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