Dumb newbie bar stock forging questions

[PIndelicato]

I've now forged a total of 3 knife blanks, with the first two being from round stock (coil spring) and the most recent one from bar stock. I have a few general dumb questions for the more experienced:

-How long and how many heats 'should' it take to establish the point? (I found this to be much easier with round stock, as the square wants to fold over and form fish lips. What took only a few minutes and couple of heats with round took me probably 30+ minutes and I don't know how many heats using bar.)

-How much gain in width 'should' I expect after forging the bevels? (I started with 3/16" x 1 1/4" stock, and I only gained about 1/8" at the widest point near the ricasso...less or none for the rest of the blade. I did leave it kind of thick to allow cleanup on the grinder, but for some reason I expected more change in width than this.) I know this is dependent on a lots of factors, so just a general idea.

-When forging the bevels, do you work it from both sides of the blade or only from one? (My first couple I worked both sides, this one from mainly just one and I can't really see much of a difference in the finished blank. Perhaps I just stink using both methods!)

 

[deker]

I can't tell you how many heats it should take as that varies entirely based on heat, experience, hammer weight, etc. I can tell you how to avoid your fish lips problem though. Rather than hammering down onto the side of the bar to taper to a point, begin by striking on the corners and driving them back into the bar at a 45-degree angle. This will upset the corners back into the bar and thicken the tip, but that's easy to thin back out. Once you have a blunt "bullnose" point, then start working out into your more pointy taper.

Width gain again depends on a lot. If you're like me, you'll see 1/4-3/8" of widening when starting with 1" stock. If you're like Ray Richard you can start with a discarded tang and make a 12" bowie knife

I always work bevels from both sides. It helps me to keep things even and centered in the ricasso. If you're off-center in your forging, it'll never be straight once you start grinding....

Hope that helps!

-d

 

[PIndelicato]

Thanks deker. I had fish lips on the first try, but then I began using the correct technique as you describe. For some reason, it just took me forever to get it worked down into a point. Even doing as you describe, I had to work hard to fight off the fish lip problem. With round stock, forming the point is much easier for me. Hammer is 3 lb. rounding, experience...not much as you can see!

I think I managed to keep it more or less straight and centered working it just from one side this time, but it's probably not the best approach. That was about the only part of this attempt that seemed to go very well. I probably did not forge the bevels thin enough, however, based upon how little width gain I achieved.

Thanks much for the advice.