Dumb question about forging press

D

Dmitry.M

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Jun 13, 2006
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Can you compare the loudness of the forging press(hydraulic pump and the motor) vs anvil and a sledgehammer?

I finally is ready to start building the press, but if it is the same loud as an anvil I might think twice.
If the pump is loud is there any way to muffle it?
 
I would say it is not nearly as loud as an anvil and hammer, or a power hammer. There is a high pitched "whine" when the press is moving and it changes to a higher pitch whine when it has pushed all it can push, but neither sound is overwhelming or as sharp and clear as a hammer and anvil.
 
50\50 so far...

May be there are loud and not very loud pumps?

To put the pump outside would mean I will ask for a trouble. The whole problem is because of the VERY close neighbours with small kids. Their house wall is 10' from my garage wall where I forge. And so far I was trying to muffle my anvil as much as possible. I have a bucket of gravel on each side, carpet between the anvil and the stand and carpet between the stand and the floor. But when I use sledgehammer.... man... the whole garage resonate. So I was thinking the press would be quiet. Or at least not as loud. It is hard to hammer for few hours, I am not 20 years old anymore. But I still can do it. The main reason for me to build a press is to go quiet... and if it is not going to happen... why I should do it?

Ok. Another idea. What if I will finish my garage with the drywall and the fiberglass insulation. Would it contain the press noise? Or would it keep it in reasinable brackets to the people outside?
 
P.S. Can I put the motor and the pump in the separate box or container? What exactly emits the noise?
 
Dmitry,

It's a different kind of "loud". It's a more constant whine than a percussive sound of an anvil. What makes the noise is the motor and pump assembly so it's possible that you could put the pump and motor into an enclosure to deaden the noise significantly. You'll want to make sure that it has some kind of ventilation to keep the pump and motor from overheating though.

-d
 
Each pump will be different. My press is about as loud as my table saw. I personally find the sound annoying but my wife finds the power hammer annoying and accepts the press easily. I did insulate the motor/pump and it made it much quieter. It was louder than the anvil but I think it is about the same now. Also Deker made a good point, the percussive sound of the hammer on anvil has a different effect on neighbors.
 
What if I will finish my garage with the drywall and the fiberglass insulation. Would it contain the press noise?
Click to expand...
This would take care of the problem.

Also, a 1740 rpm motor on the pump is much quiter than a 3600 rpm, I know, I did the swap.
 
There are many sound proofing materials available commercially as there are OSHA limits on sound for workers .Do a bit of research.
 
mete said:
There are many sound proofing materials available commercially as there are OSHA limits on sound for workers .Do a bit of research.
Click to expand...

Make sure to share what you find out in your research as well! :) I'm bringing a new press home this weekend that will have the tank and pump separate from the press and so I may be able to box mine in to quiet it down as well. I'll have to get some longer hoses to do it, but I'm probably going to have to do that eventually anyways.

-d
 
Don Hanson III said:
This would take care of the problem.

Also, a 1740 rpm motor on the pump is much quieter than a 3600 rpm, I know, I did the swap.
Click to expand...

The faster rpm motors are typically louder (whine) but if you have a 4 gpm pump @3600 rpm and you switch to a lower rpm motor, now you will have 2 gpm output, thus slowing down the speed of the cylinder. Insulating the pump and motor are good points. What kind of pump is on it ? gear pumps are typically the loudest, a vane pump is ultra quite but more expensive. But without knowing your circuit, cylinder size, pump output, operating pressure.
P.s. if unit is hard plumbed..adding hose instead of tube can greatly reduce noise.
 
I'm running a 16 gpm pump, a 5" cylinder, 5hp Lesson 1740 rpm. Speed is fine, didn't notice much difference from the 3600 rpm. Hell of a lot quitter and squishishity:D is same.

When I want speed and serious forging I use my 100 lb Little Giant.
 
Well... I will start again from the very beginning.

I need to "sqweesh" the wootz ingots. They are fairly stiff. The size is about 2...2-1/2" thick and 2-1/2...3" wide. The shape is close to the semisphere.
To complicate the matter the wootz shall not be forged at high heat wich is common for the damascus billet forging. So the steel will be STIFF.

Due to those reasons I chose a 6" cylinder, a 16/4GPM pump and a 5HP/3450rpm motor. The ram will go about 1/2" per sec in high pressure stage. But it is OK.
This set of components should make about 50 ton of force at 3000psi.
If I'll go for the lower RPM I will be "squishing" cold steel(too slow).
If I'll go with the 5" cylinder it will make only 24-25 tons force. That could be not enough to press the 2-1/2 by 3" section of a stiff ingot.

So... so far I understand, that I will need to make a heavily dampened ventilated enclosure for the pump and motor. Potentialy dampen the oil tank. And finish my garage with the fiberglass and drywall.
Probably I will need to insulate garage doors as well.

I guess that all this will easily double the price of the project...
On the other hand I may crank the production about 10 times up.
On the third hand... it will not crank my sales 10 times up...

Ok, another question along the way. Many of you use the regular steel for the business end of the press. And the reason is - any hardened steel tempers and becomes softer. So there is almost no gain in using D2 there.
Did anyone use HSS type of steel? It should me MUCH more rsistant to the tempering and annealing. It should not be hardened though, because of the brittleness. But still it should be harder than A36. Am I right?
 
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It seems strange to me that some say their presses are louder than hammering at an anvil.
Keep in mind when you construct your press that vibration is the cause of noise. My motor and pump are located at the base of the main beam of the press. Having the motor and pump on the floor will help eliminate vibration. Try to eliminate thin materials(for shielding, etc.) that will vibrate and cause noise. Use heavy sheathing on walls to dampen sound. Anchor everything solidly to minimize vibration. Put sound deadening materials(Rubber or asphaltic products. Self adhering floor tiles or rubberized flashing tape work.) on any large flat surfaces on the press. I'll bet some of the loud presses could be tamed easily with a little thought toward that end.
Have fun with your project.
Alden
 
Dmitry,

Thanks for the thread. I love it when people ask questions that I never got around to askin'. I learn something new everyday, I hope it never stops.

I'm with Don on using the hammer to draw out the billet. I use the hammer to get the billet to within 90% of my final dimensions and then use the press with stops to finish. The best part about the hammer are my welds have dramatically improved, plus its just plain fun.:)
 
Actually if I will find the way to mantain the noise within an acceptable level that would be a good info for all of us. I'll write in this thread or in separate one about my findings.

I understand the benefits of the press. Just don't want to make them drawbacks instead of the benefits because of my poor engineering.
That's why I am willing to put few extra buck in bigger cylinder, pump and motor.
Actually I would go for a 22-25GPM pump and a 10HP motor, but I am limited in 220 single phase. 3-phase converter would break my financial back.
So I reduced my apetites to 16GPM and 5HP single phase set.

What I dug about the noise so far.
The pump emits the sound when it vibrates. It moves against the motor shaft because the joint has some play. So one way to reduce the vibration and the noise is to connect the shafts directly with no dampener. This will introduce a lot of stress on the motor rotor, but it will mechanially load the pump shaft and make it move smoother.
Another MUST DO is to put motor-pump assembly on a SEPARATE HEAVY SOLID foundation. Than you can put this foundation on a layer of "soft" material. Like rubber or so.
I got this form the compressor guy. He said that a cast concrete foundation will reduce the noise twice as much at least.
I know many put their motors and pumps on the press legs. Or on the oil tank. This will AMPLIFY the noise. The "power station" must be separate and mounted on the solid heavy base. Cast iron base would be the best, but it is hardly doable in our cases.
 
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