Dumm ole country boah don't know da differnce FRN/G10

L

Lavan

Joined
Nov 8, 2000
Messages
2,301
Spydie sez:
Glossary:
Fiberglass Reinforced Nylon (FRN)

A nylon polymer mixed with glass fiber that is then injected into a mold for making lightweight knife handles.

G-10

Handle material made of epoxy filled with woven glass fiber that is impervious to changes in temperature and can be tinted into many colors.

Now, WHAT'S the big difference? Strength? How much difference?

:confused:
 
Now, WHAT'S the big difference? Strength? How much difference?

*yee gets what yee pays fer!

For me, it's a matter of texture. G-10 "feels" more expensive and what I have (spyderco) has a great texture. There is a strength difference also, but oz. for oz. G-10 is stronger.

hope this helps. ( i only own G-10 from spydie. this is my only experience with it)
 
Typically, epoxy is much harder than nylon. It's stronger, but also more brittle.
 
Maybe I could make my FRN feel "more expensive" if I wrapped it with a $50 bill.

;) :D
 
LOL! I should be getting a FRN Dragonfly from NGK (tops in service!) tommorrow. I'll post on what I think on both. the U K Pen and Dragonfly. ie. FRN v/s G-10.
 
"Typically, epoxy is much harder than nylon. It's stronger, but also more brittle."

than how is it stronger if its more brittle? i dotn get it?
 
big philly said:
"Typically, epoxy is much harder than nylon. It's stronger, but also more brittle."

than how is it stronger if its more brittle? i dotn get it?
Click to expand...

Maybe he means stiffer? Or perhaps less vulnerable to deformation under less-than-destructive forces? FRN will scratch a lot easier than G-10 will (well, not that much easier, but you can run over FRN with a truck and it'll still be in one piece. The only downsides I can see are that FRN is softer, and supposedly feels "cheaper."

Also, keep in mind that layered composites like G10 and carbon fiber are made specifically for resistance to directional forces - the whole point is to reinforce the polymer matrix by adding aligned fibers in order to increase strength in a specific direction. So a handle made of G10 with its fibers aligned parallel to the liners will exhibit behavior similar to unreinforced epoxy when force is applied perpendicular to the liners - as in a sharp blow against the handle scales by a rock.

Composites have their uses (a great many) but in folding knives the only advantages are looks and texture.
 
FRN is nylon pellets melted down and formed...
G-10 is a glass composite class-E...

FRN is still affected by chemicals, G-10 is damn near indestructable.
 
Also emphasis on "woven". In G-10 the fibers are intertwined. In glass filled nylon, the glass strands are shorter and randomly oriented. Just as you can pull a cotton wad easily appart and would have a harder time with a woven fabric same applies to the comparison of G-10 and FRN.
 
HoB said:
Also emphasis on "woven". In G-10 the fibers are intertwined. In glass filled nylon, the glass strands are shorter and randomly oriented. Just as you can pull a cotton wad easily appart and would have a harder time with a woven fabric same applies to the comparison of G-10 and FRN.
Click to expand...

This is all true, of course, but I can't really think of a situation where you would apply longitudinal or transverse forces on a handle slab. If you detest handle flex, G10 is stiffer - but it WILL flex, even under finger pressure. If you have liners, then stiffness isn't so much of an issue.

FRN, being a short-fiber polymer composite, has essentially the same properties in all directions - dependent on shape, of course.

I've seen very good imitations of your standard G10 texture in FRN. For me personally, I like G10. This is for a very strange reason, however - it reminds me of the masonite boards we used in ceramics class in middle school. I loved those things - they always smelled like baked clay, and whenever I put my nose to a G10 handled knife, I catch a whiff of that nostalgic scent.
 
FRN is considered low end material, because it is light weight and inexpensive. Micarta and G10 are considered higher end materials because they are heavier than FRN and more expensive. Carbon Fiber is considered the highest end material because it is lighter than Micarta and G10 and very expensive. This either means there are factors at work that I just don't understand, or FRN just had a lousy press agent.

People for some reason consider FRN weak. Yet, it is used for toothbrush handles, something people put in their mouth, then put pressure on and move around somewhat vigorously. In some circles that might be considered testiment to its reliability.

FRN is slicker that G10 - It actually makes a good enough bearing that many FRN handles have molded in FRN bearings at the pivot, while G10 needs bearings between it and the blade to reduce drag. You hear a LOT more complains of "gritty" and "stiff" actions on G10 handled knives. That grittiness, I suspect, is what folks equate with superior traction and "feel".

FRN is more resiliant than G10 - so in slabs of equal length, width and thickness, it will feel more flexible. But, in slabs the size of an average knife handle, this difference is not all that great. I strongly suspect that the greater perceived rigidity of G10 knives is due more to the fact that most G10 handles have liners and metal backstraps, while almost all FRN ones have neither. If I open both knives and squeeze their handles between my thumb an forefinger, midway between the pivot and butt, I can deflect those of my unlined G10 BlackHawk about as much as those of my FRN C41 Native.

In my more cruel moments, I sometimes wonder what would happen if you put a bunch of knives of equal size, one each with FRN, G10, Micarta, CF, aluminum, titanium, and stainless steel handles, in a really sturdy sack and tossed it in a dryer with a load of clothes every day for a week, then opened it up. Have a hunch the least beat up looking handle of the lot would be the FRN.

To some extent, both FRN and G10 are like chicken soup, coffee, or hamburgers. The quality can vary tremendously depending on the source, and the presentation can either enhance or lessen the qualilty of the experience. I think FRN handles with finely checkered panels, reminiscent of the look of handgun grips and rifle stocks, would be more visually appealing than the "volcano grip". I often wonder how FRN finished the same way Spyderco finishes G10 would be received.
 
The short of it is that FRN vs G10 is like comparing injection molded plastic to a hand laminated piece of fiberglass. FRN is far stronger than most injection molded plastics due to the glass filler, but it doesnt contain continuous woven sheets of the material, and has relatively low stiffness. G10 is sheets of fiberglass cloth, compressed under extremely high pressure and bonded/soaked with an epoxy based resin.

The epoxy resin, high pressure, and stacked sheets of fiberglass give G-10 far higher hardness, and resistance to bending. It's also extremely resistant to impact damage, as evidenced by the Benchmade 710 I managed to drop into the hinge of a '72 cutlass door and then slammed shut before I noticed it was there. This left a large gouge and divot in the surface, and managed to bend the liners so far the blade couldn't be opened without pliers. It did not crack or deform the G10 itself past the gouge and divot (this wasn't broken off, it was impacted)
 
Country boah konklooshion:

FRN coss less and is tuffer and moar ree-zil-ee-unt.

G10 coss moar an iz better fer braggin

BOFUM werk good on nife.

:footinmou :p :D
 
On some of my FRN knives I lightly sand the FRN scales with 220 grit wet/dry
sandpaper.
The Centofante III (great knife) that I'm carrying right now, as well other FRN knives, work a little better for me after sanding.
 
big philly said:
"Typically, epoxy is much harder than nylon. It's stronger, but also more brittle."

than how is it stronger if its more brittle? i dotn get it?
Click to expand...

I'm a country feller myself, so maybe this'll help (it's not a perfect analogy, but it'll do):

Steel: Strong and ductile (that means you can bend it some)
Cast iron: Strong but brittle (you can't bend it)

I haven't put these materials in a tension tester, but my informed guess would be that the FRN would neck down before failure, whereas the G10 will hold more load (per unit cross-sectional area) but exhibit brittle fracture.
 
Has a knife maker ever put steel liners into an FRN knife, I think the BM Grip is done this way, but not sure? If so, how has this increased the rigidity and over all solid feel of the knife? Would folks just as likely, or more so, be inclined to buy a knife done this way vs. a G-10 model? This configuration would likely still be cheaper than G-10, but would it be just as strong? Inquiring minds want to know...
 
The griptillians aren't really frn, the polymer is different, harder, a bit more brittle. I think Sal had the impression that steel liners on the endura and delica were something people wanted, but in a recent thread found otherwise. FRN knives are built the way they are for the light weight, without sacrificing too much overall strength and rigidity. Adding steel liners just makes it a brick with plastic handles, at that point G10 probably doesnt cost much more to tack on since you've already got all the machine operations in place to make it work.
 
wysocum: The Centofante III, (great knife), has a nested steel liner on the clip side of the handle. The clip screws screw into the liner.

The Centofante's FRN scales are kind of thin, which make for very good IWB carry, and yet the handle has good stiffness and strength, thanks to the single steel liner in the handle. G-10 scales wouldn't be much of an improvement, but they sure would cost more.

I'd like to see Spyderco use this type of handle construction in other FRN knives, such as the Endura, etc.
 
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