dumped in the drink "what if"

Liam Ryan

Liam Ryan

Joined
Sep 26, 2005
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Theres been a few of these threads lately, but who can disagree they are pretty fun.
Lets say you are canoeing or rafting alone, and suddenly you are in the water, most of your gear gone. all you have is 1 firestarting implement (bic, firesteel and striker, etc) and 1 edged tool, which luckily were on your belt.
You are soaked, tired from the fight to shore, and its not a lot above freezing.
Which tools do you have and what are your actions until you are lying down
to go to sleep that first night?
 
Fire starter: Magnesium firestarter (go with what you know)

Edged tool: Cold Steel Rifleman's Hawk (I've seen amazing things doen with a small axe.)

(Also it would be rare I didn' t have my camillus version of the SAK with me)

First order of business, wring out clothing and find a site to make a fire, preferably something with a large rock or log to lean against and reflect heat. After that, gather firewood and tinder until almost dark. Start medium large fire to keep warm and dry out. I would probably have been exerting enough getting materials to keep warm.

Lastly gather boughs or grasses to make some sort of bedding and some sort of shelter/cover.

I've never found myself in this situation, so there is a lot of assuming here. Maybe others have more experience they can share.

-Clint
 
i'd pretty much do as clint did but seeing as i'm exhausted and it's cold i'd also hope i didn't lose my fish hooks, or at least my safety pins, and some line so somethin would be ready for me to eat in the mornin cuz i know i'll be starved. anyone fished with safety pins? how'd that work out?

i'd probably bring something stainless to go rafting, though, so it's probably a sak or one of my folders.
 
Fire starter: high intensity waterproof flare. I suspect that will get disqualified, so the second type is: http://www.permanentmatch.com/home.html. It's waterproof and holds lighter fluid. I have one, it's pretty slick.

Edged tool: axe. this is no time for finesse, you could die. an axe cant fail unless you loose it. It would not be my choice of camping gear, but when you could die, hack and pound, dont whittle and cut. besides, the hacking will warm you.

actions:
1) Clothes off, wring them out, exercise vigerously. clothes back on. Dont care if you're tired from the swim, you're about to die.

2) Fire, fire, fire. No time for efficency, get a big ass fire going. If all you can get is a small fire, stand over top of it.

3) find some stones and put them in the fire. dig a shallow ditch in the dirt / sand and place the hot rocks in & burry them. Make a bed over it with debris, and try to make a debris shelter for over top of you. The stones will stay pretty hot for several hours.

Anyway, I do alot of late fall and winter dirt bike trail riding, And I never fail to get at least knee deep in water. Often waist deep, and If my riding buddy has his way, up to my neck (happened several times late 2006 in Michigan). We just stay within a mile or 2 of the cabin and ride back, stand over the fire, 30-45 minutes you're bone dry (somewhere exists pictures of me with a bottle of whiskey in one hand and steam rising from my whole body and the other hand around the shoulder of a snowman that the kids made...). My riding partner has fallen through the ice at the mouth of streams and had to walk back 2 or 3 miles, but he's crazy so that doesn't count.

So I have never had to make a fire while wet and cold like that, but it sure does the trick once there's a fire already going!
 
Rule #1 in a boat. If you want to keep your stuff tie it to you or the boat ! Even a shotgun ,tie a light line from gun to boat.Keep stuff in waterproof containers too. Many years ago we asked an instructor about flint and steel type fire starters. He said that if you've just fallen into the water in subfreezing temperatures that's no time to be fooling around with flint and steel !! I always carried waterproof matches and a candle.
 
mete said:
Rule #1 in a boat. If you want to keep your stuff tie it to you or the boat ! Even a shotgun ,tie a light line from gun to boat.Keep stuff in waterproof containers too. Many years ago we asked an instructor about flint and steel type fire starters. He said that if you've just fallen into the water in subfreezing temperatures that's no time to be fooling around with flint and steel !! I always carried waterproof matches and a candle.
Click to expand...


Agreed.

But to entertain the original premise you lost all your stuff except a fire impliment, and an edged tool.
 
Liam Ryan said:
all you have is 1 firestarting implement (bic, firesteel and striker, etc) and 1 edged tool,
Click to expand...

Honestly in that case I would want my mag firesteel and my GB hatchet, or SFA. I would be much more comfortable with a axe than just one knife.
 
mete said:
Rule #1 in a boat. If you want to keep your stuff tie it to you or the boat ! .
Click to expand...


Not to be agrumentive.... but thats wrong. If you want to keep your stuff, tie it to you. I have always been told to tie my pack,axe, etc (within reason of course so you don't drowned) to my belt loops. It's easy for a canoe to get away from you.... with all your equipment:eek:
 
Well rather than stating what I would Ideally have I'll say what I'definitely have on my person if in the bush and fell out of a boat and ended up with out my bag I have on my belt a Sog seal pup with a sharpener and a waterproof match case filled with parafin coated strike anywhere matches, ( it also has a flint epoxied to the outside.( Ialso carry a Leatherman wave, and a stainless steel flask of Jamesons Irish WHisky, but for the purpose of the excercise I'll leave them out) than everything off except the boots, try to wring em out and hangem on low treelibs as best as I can. I'd try to combine getting my temp up with finding kindling and wood for the fire I'd build once the fire was up in running I'd star thinking about shelter and insulation I'd probably try to focus on some type of debris style leanto facing south and the mouth of the fire And fill it with as many dry leaves as I could find to try and make a squirrel nest if the sun was setting to fast to get a leanto up I'd focus on collecting insulation. I don't know...that's me at the computer...me out there might do something else.
 
Magnum, I never used safety pins but I have used sections of brach with angle thorns, Got some bites but It's alot harder to hook em with out the barbs
 
The lesson in scenarios like this is that if you don't have it on you when you enter the water, you won't have it when you get to the beach. I picked up a Survival Sheath Essential Survivor Chest Rig specifically to keep a minimal survival kit on me. In this scenario it would be under my PFD, regardless of the other stuff on my belt. So I'd have a keyring flint and steel and a SAK Rucksack (and a Photon micro light).
 
You have to be careful what you are tying equipment to yourself and/or the boat. Provides a good chance to become entangled and drown.
As long as any part of the boat is above water you stay with it (tidal waters).
If in a river don't go off the waterfall holding onto the canoe. :)

In a capsized boat it's likely you will only have your PFD, and whatever else you may be carrying on your belt. Assume a knife and a PSK in best case.

The gear tethered to the boat is gone with the boat.
You don't use dummy cords or tethers to yourself due to entanglement.
Example, you tether yourself to a day pack. But you leave slack so you can move around within the boat/dinghy/canoe. The loop of the tether gets caught on the seat, a cleat, or any other gear while the boat is capsizing...Not Good. Even if you are clear of the boat, you now have a water laden pack tethered to you, pulling you, and could get entangled on a sunken tree, rock, etc. and you drown.

back to topic:

So you make it to shore, assume a river, as stated it's only a little above freezing. Which probably means the water took you well down the path to hypothermia. You are cold and shivvering, fingers numb.

FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE. It is all that matters at this point.
Clap your hands together, do some jumping jacks, push upsd, just enough to get the blood flowing then it's all about FIRE.

Don't waste valuable time and energy bringing firewood to you, go to where there is the most wood available and get the Fire built, pronto!!

Make the fire large enough so you can undress fully and dry the clothes out fully before nightfall.

Only after getting entirely dry and warm should you turn to shelter building. You can survive next to a hot fire all night, but maybe not in a shelter soaked and shivvering. Once dry, you'll probably be occupied with getting enough firewood for the night that you won't be building yourself a 3 bedroom rancher with walk-out bsmnt for a shelter.

If the scenario occurred early in the day you have time to dry out, fire, and build shelter, but, that is assuming a lot in your favor, better to plan for less time and more urgency than thinking you'll have all day long.

Don't jump to how to survive the entire night, when hypothermia could set in well before. Stay focussed on the thing that is gonna get you first, once it has been controlled, then move to the next thing.


Sorry about not mentioning the knife, but, except for maybe wittling a fuzz stick or two to get the fire started it's immaterial, you will use what you have.
I would be gald to have a $10 Mora at that point, anything above and beyond is gravy.
 
This brings up a good point. The clothing you choose to wear into the outdoors could drasticly affect whether or not you survive this event. If you are wearing jeans and a cotton tee shirt with maybe a hooded sweatshirt for warmth. You have stacked the deck against yourself.

Assuming I had fleece pants and jacket over polypro long underwear, I would be in much better shape - Even if my parka was tied to your pack. These synthetics dry really fast and will still offer some warmth even when wet. The downside of these clothes is they don't readily accomodate wearing a belt and carrying gear. They also don't like sparks either!

So like others have said,
  1. Get the blood moving
  2. Get out of wet clothes - If you can wring them out and put them back on, great. If you have a nylon windbreaker, ala Bear Gylls, put that on to protect against the wind.
  3. Fire - Like Skunk said, build it where the fuel is. One caveat, if that location is really exposed, you don't want to be standing in a cold wind soaking wet. If you can get to a sheltered position to build your fire, do so.
  4. Dry off.
  5. Build or find shelter.
-- FLIX
 
i have a couple of rules when i leave the pavement,
rule #1 allways have fannypack attached to body--
fanny pack has everything in ziplock bags-- it will float-- keep me on top of water-- good thing.
in fanny pack are sportsmans blanket, highway flare, firesteel, vaseline cottonballs, gorp, jerkey, canteen cup, space blanket X2, first aid supplies, gatoraide powder,or jello powder (whatever is in cupboard when i pack), tea, coffee, bullion cubes, instant hot chocolate, heavy foil. large blade strapped to outside.

first find a nearby deadfall, break off squaw wood, make large pile, light flare and put under pile-- fire problem solved, fill canteen cup and put next to fire, add gatoraide to replenish sugar lost due to shivers, strip off clothes wrap in sportsmans blanket sit in front of fire and heat body, drink hot drink to warm from inside, give body sugar to stoke the engine. sit down next to fire, drink my drink, eat some food , dry clothing, make plan to get out of here.

rule #2 never get in a bush plane without a sleeping bag

rule#3 never hunt dangerous game with a guide that is braver than you are.


rule #4 keep a sharp thing and a fire thing in your pocket at all times.

rule #5 if things go to hell-- sit down have a warm drink next to the fire you just made and reason it out. if you study the dynamics of airplane crashes-- it is not the first error that is fatal, it is usually the third. applying this to survival situations-- maybe you made the first error, sit down and think about your situation and you will avoid the second and third errors.

alex
 
Interesting Liam. Thought about this already, and carry a reusable heavy-duty space-type blanket with added grommets, a 6" Frosts Sprtfishing knife, a first-aid kit (geared more towards trauma management), a knife sharpener (dog bone), petroleum jelly/cotton ball tinder, and a firestarter (mag block or permanent match). All this is carried in a pouch affixed to the back of my PFD. On the front of my PFD, I have a smaller fixed blade, a CPR barrier device, AMK Pocket Survival Kit, and a whistle/thermometer thingie. I figured this compliment of gear could see me and my paddling partner (we have a tandem kayak) through a crappy day and/or night.

These 'waht if ' scenarios that people come up with are always good and thought provoking. This is the one of first ones I've come across that I've actually thought about prior to reading about it here. Yay!
 
tarmix101 said:
Not to be agrumentive.... but thats wrong. If you want to keep your stuff, tie it to you. I have always been told to tie my pack,axe, etc (within reason of course so you don't drowned) to my belt loops. It's easy for a canoe to get away from you.... with all your equipment:eek:
Click to expand...
I'd have to agree with this. I do secure some thing to the boat, but important things I link to my PFD with paracord or webbing and a biner. Just make sure that the things you link to you have an easy path out of the boat if you roll it over. You don't want something to snag in the boat and carry you under or away.
 
Many interesting, well thought out replies. One thing that occured to me though. We spend a lot of time figuring out the best knife, firestarting, belt gear etc. but pay little attention to the clothes on our backs. If I dumped and swam to shore with just my knife, belt, canteen, etc, combo, I suppose that Id want atleast some wool on me as it retains a high percentage of body heat, even when wet. Im sure others have even better clothing comments and Id like to read about them.
 
I have to agree that pre planning and clothing are a huge part of the survivability of this or any other survival scenario.

As far as what i would like to have, an axe or big chopper and a magnezium bar

If i were conoeing or kayaking I would have gear that was comfortable to sit with. so more likley a small stainless fixed blade or large folder and a magnezium bar or hot spark .



As stated by many already

1# get circulation going enough to start fire

2# Fire Fire Fire !!! Go to the wood if possible, look for a downed tree or similar. try to stay above flood areas especially if its raining

3# Dry clothes, put on clothes as they dry and then begin to think about shelter

4# once dry and warm gather materials to stay that way, shelter, extra fire wood, Shelter would be as simple as possible, debris hut etc.

5# Plan for exit, Can I follow the river out? is this spot isolated by mountains? are there roads nearby? Do I need to be rescued? Signals, fires, whistles etc.

6# start planning on who will play me on "I Shouldnt Be Alive" :D
 
This post demonstrates one of the places where hollow handle knives really would come into their own since they are really designed as bail out tools.

Something like the Chris Reeve Aviator, Moutaineer I or Shadow III, would be a nice choice as a carry knife for canoe or kayak.
 
I have to say, if you are canoeing somewhere that's just above freezing, and all you have attached to your belt is one edged instrument and one firestarting tool, you are in fairly bad shape.
If you're somewhere where there's a danger of ending up in such a circumstance, I'd hope you'd be wearing some very warm clothing, either wool or synthetic so that it would keep insulating somewhat even if wet, and have at least some bare survival kit attached to you. At least a tarp, some sort of flashlight, and a whistle, in addition to the knife and firestarter.
 
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