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Dumstorferbeil

Discussion in 'Axe, Tomahawk, & Hatchet Forum' started by Ernest DuBois, Aug 10, 2018 at 9:49 AM.

  1. Ernest DuBois

    Ernest DuBois

    733
    Mar 2, 2013
    It was the unusual series of circumstances lead me to getting my grubby hands on the axe which I otherwise would not have, more from lack of motivation than interest.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    So when one fell into my lap I was quick to seize on the opportunity.
    The form is coming from the time of the middle ages and was in continual use up to the 19 century in German parts mostly but also such axes came into use at least in Holland.
    I can see the early attempts at giving the axe a broader cutting edge while holding the weight under control and maintaining sufficient mechanical properties.[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Now I have gone and put it to use as a surfacing tool and it does a nice job of it. Here we can credit the exaggerated sweep of the non-beveled side of the edge, making the axe work like a gouge using this technique.[​IMG]
    Mounted with an off-set handle on there which is my own interpretation of things.
     
    din, Square_peg, Yankee Josh and 3 others like this.
  2. jake pogg

    jake pogg

    645
    Dec 20, 2015
    That's a beautiful old pattern,not often seen,thanks,Ernest.I really like your interpretation of handling it too,sweet tool as a result,i'm sure.

    Surprised to see that the blade is in no wise convex at all...or so it appears in photos...The corners don't dig in at all?(Due to your skill?).
     
    Agent_H likes this.
  3. Agent_H

    Agent_H Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    I’ve only seen reference to these a few times. Very interesting build. I bet it does some beautiful work in your employ.

    The fact that you happened upon a left-handed presentation version is especially fortunate. Sometimes I think I like pictures of your shop almost as much as the axes themselves. As Jake mentioned, the handle looks like great work on your part (as per usual, of course).
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018 at 11:25 AM
  4. Ernest DuBois

    Ernest DuBois

    733
    Mar 2, 2013
    Deep penetration would indeed result in trouble at the points that's why I avoid it, at least try but things can get quickly out of hand even still:) the axe is an aggressive one if left to its own devises. But anyway, on all accounts I have tried to reduce the convex forms that were there to begin with from the smid, taking much grinding work to accomplish.
    In fact the smid had two right-handeds but went back to the forge and hammered one for me out in a few hours. He's got the process down.
    Ok then, just for you my shop as of yesterday. So much daylight in here now because the roof is off![​IMG]
     
    din, Square_peg, Yankee Josh and 4 others like this.
  5. Ernest DuBois

    Ernest DuBois

    733
    Mar 2, 2013
    As I mentioned , a series of circumstances ones that even now I forget but as part of it all I did acquire some cool information. This is the one Peter Mass has in his forge found in Dumstorf which he models for his reproductions, the original being just that much better quality[​IMG]
    Jay who now and then will pipe in on this forum sent me this taken from one or other Russian site where axes get discussed, very nice variations.
    [​IMG] And this from a museum in the area Luneburg where they were looking into these things, I think dated back to 15th century.
    [​IMG]
    All it seems without exception for right handers a concept I got met with some skepticism by Duits carpenters on mention I must say but then they have a, lets say limited conception of axe work in general, I think.
     
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  6. Agent_H

    Agent_H Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 21, 2013
    Ernest, thank you. The Russian resource is particularly interesting. Is it in German? There seems to be a separate word for the toe that extends past the eye? Even if I could make out the words, I think a knowledgeable human would have to translate to common English terms?

    Is that a cricket or grasshopper on the blade? (Locust is another option I imagine but seems less distinguished than the first two)

    Always interesting.
     
    jake pogg likes this.
  7. Ernest DuBois

    Ernest DuBois

    733
    Mar 2, 2013
    I think maybe you are referring to what they call Spitze, if I read correctly, this small text,with my poor eyesight. If I recall, my Duits being that limited, spitze would translate into something like "peak" in this instance. The story of the grasshopper is as follows, Peter has taken it on as symbol, also he has it tattooed on his arm, because he is himself such a long-legged creature.
     
    Agent_H, jake pogg and Trailsawyer like this.
  8. Kevin Houtzager

    Kevin Houtzager

    597
    Jun 25, 2017
    If somebody can get me the text a bit bigger then it is know I can translate it, because it is German. I can read a little now, but not all of it. Anwendungs-skizze = handling sketch. And as for those axes in Holland: I haven't seen any over here, So if there where any over here they would most likely be in the eastern provinces of the country and in there fairly close to the border: Groningen , Drenthe, Overijssel, Gelderland, Limburg. That being said: Haven't seen any in a collection over here that where actually found in Dutch soil or water?

    One thing though: I don't believe this a real weight cutting exersize? But more something to do with simplifying the construction? Cause for a wider blade you usually need more weight for the same amout of penetration.

    (Speed times Weight equals Force) divided by cutting edge equals penetration (Fairly simple equation without taking into account the shape of blade itself).
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018 at 5:17 AM
  9. Kevin Houtzager

    Kevin Houtzager

    597
    Jun 25, 2017
    Translation (at least, as far as I can read it)


    Barte als speziele Form des Banhandbeils. Die ziechnungen zeigen die autsitung des Blattes, Anwendungsskizze, Ansicht van vorn, Bartenklinge mit wennig ausgepragter Spitze sowie die isometrische danstellung einer klinge.

    =

    Beard form this specially designed one handed broadaxe. The drawings show the construction of the blade, handling sketch, Front view, axe edge with a small pronounced wedge just like a isometric taper of an edge.

    As for the rest: Can't read that because the letters are to small. Tried enlarging my browser view, but the image is of to low a quality. If Earnest can type it, I can translate it....
     
    Square_peg likes this.
  10. Ernest DuBois

    Ernest DuBois

    733
    Mar 2, 2013
    Even the original sent by Jay is illegible to me. I have no way of making the text more clear unfortunately but thanks for your translating work Kevin.
    And yet when an example of an axe of this type came under discussion earlier you claimed to have had it in your rubber gloved hands. That is the axe off the Nova Zembla shipwreck on display for all to see at the Rijksmuseum, but I'll make it simple and just re-post the one I mean. https://www.rijksmuseum.nl/nl/zoeken/objecten?p=14&ps=12&f.hnrCode.section.sort=17de+Eeuw&f.hnrCode.hall.sort=2.9:+Nederland+overzee&ondisplay=True&st=Objects&ii=3#/NG-NM-7784,156
    Must have been a mix-up about the axe on your mind and the one I referenced. Anyway with the one from the shipwreck it's fairly clear that the type of axe concerned had widespread distribution, in both time-span and geography.
     
    Square_peg likes this.
  11. Kevin Houtzager

    Kevin Houtzager

    597
    Jun 25, 2017
    Nova Zembla isn't Dutch soil. Nova Zembla: https://www.google.nl/maps/@74.018853,57.0633246,6.1z Furthermore, the ship landed on the shores of Scandinavia. It would be more probable from a geografical standpoint that the axe was picked up there. There have been a lot more findings like those axes over there. The nameless nova Zembla ship charted further north from Scandinavia onwards.
    Dumstorf: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/Du...0xa263df5063e66d0!8m2!3d53.176555!4d10.690241

    As for Nova Zembla itself:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novaya_Zemlya Known by eastern Europeans from the 11th century onwards. So it could also be a possiblity (although highly unlikely) that it was left there by other eastern Europeans.

    The shipwreck itself is highly disputed as wel: There was practically nothing left of it. Al the wood that drifted ashore was used for the foundation of het Behouden Huys. (dutch link) :
    https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Het_Behouden_Huys

    That why I said: Dutch soil or water. So try to quote all of it the next time?

     
  12. Ernest DuBois

    Ernest DuBois

    733
    Mar 2, 2013
    Kevin, you seem to be flailing wildly about, a counter productive strategy when you find yourself stick in quicksand.
     
  13. Kevin Houtzager

    Kevin Houtzager

    597
    Jun 25, 2017
    Why is reading that difficult for you? Text hasn't been editted. My quote by you has. For the rest its just stating the facts. Nothing more nothing less. And lets leave it at that.

    Reminds me of a Dutch saying: "De pot verwijt de ketel dat hij zwart ziet...."
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018 at 12:55 PM

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