Durable folder question

pinnah said:
My son and I are going backpacking this weekend. Last trip before the snow flies. The living room is full of unpacked gear and in a few hours, I'll be relying on a packing list that I review on a regular basis. Helps with my decision making. Did I use this last time? Can I survive an emergency without this?

Perhaps the same sort of questions would help here.
+ Have you are ever broken or damaged a folder before?
+ What were you doing when you busted a knife?
+ What kind of knife failed on you?
+ What is the realistic probability that you will stress a knife enough to break it?
I use my tools hard, that's why I asked about the ones I did. I use a fixed blade in the mountains. My folder is on me, day in, day out. I use it at work, maybe a make shift screwdriver, cutting sheet rock, who knows. Then it's also use as a back up, for instance quartering and skinning an elk late in the evening, my fix blade goes dull, I would finish with my folder. But thanks for the reply
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Charr said:
While the 4-Max is definitely a good and durable folder (once it finally hits the market), it isn't like you're realistically going to beat on an American Lawman or an Ultimate Hunter hard enough to ever really cause severe damage to the knife, unless you're trying VERY hard to do so.

CTS-XHP is an awesome all-around steel, and while 20CV will usually have higher edge retention, at the thickness that it will likely end up behind the edge on the 4-Max, you're not liekly to really see any higher edge retention from it over regular CTS-XHP. So basically, what you will likely end up with is a steel that doesn't really hold an edge much longer without being re-profiled, which is a little harder to sharpen than CTS-XHP, and has about the same toughness really.

Frankly, I would just save the money and go with the American Lawman, the AK-47, or the Ultimate Hunter, in CTS-XHP, and then beat the living crap out of it to your heart's content. The steel will be adequately tough for whatever tasks you need it to do, and it will still be easy enough to sharpen back up if you do manage to chip it or roll the edge.
Trust me, I love high edge-retention steel as much as the next guy, trust me, and I have messed with as many of them as I can, but the truth of the matter sometimes is that if you want a truly tough folder, you are probably going to have to make at least some compromise in the edge retention in order for the steel to be tough enough to handle a true beating, and still be easy enough to sharpen if/when you do manage to mangle the edge on accident.

Just my $0.02, but I would highly recommend NOT making your beater knife cost much more than $100, so that if you somehow ever DO manage to kill it, a replacement is easy to find and not going to break the bank.
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I have a cold steel ultimate hunter, it's not a bad knife, just looking at stepping up to something better. Cts-Xhp is ok, mine went dull skinning an elk head the other day, I'm thinking cpms30 would have held up better, more vanadium.
 
rodriguez7 said:
I have a cold steel ultimate hunter, it's not a bad knife, just looking at stepping up to something better. Cts-Xhp is ok, mine went dull skinning an elk head the other day, I'm thinking cpms30 would have held up better, more vanadium.
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Likely that is an issue of the edge geometry of your knife more-so than the steel itself, honestly. S30V won't normally hold an edge significantly longer than CTS-XHP, at least not with the same edge geometry and an optimal heat treat. They should be about the same, or CTS-XHP will be a little above S30V.

Though S30V does have a little more vanadium in it, that does not always mean it will have better edge retention really, and S30V is more prone to chipping and micro-chipping, which has always frustrated me about the steel. If the heat treat is just right, then it will be fine, but even Spyderco has had trouble with keeping the heat treat consistent enough to prevent the chipping issue with S30V.

CTS-XHP, like S35VN, is tougher, holds an edge as long or longer, and is generally easier to sharpen and re-profile than S30V. The particular experience you might have with edge retention on the steel is usually going to be effected by the edge geometry more than the vast majority of people would believe it would be, especially when you get into the realm of high-carbide steels.

Cold steel makes a really good knife, but I will admit that they usually have edge geometry that is a little too thick to really be optimized for cutting. It's likely because until recently they were still dealing with AUS-8A, which took advantage of the thicker edges to be tougher. CTS-XHP, 20CV, and 3V don't need thicker edge geometry to be tougher though, and have more than adequate edge stability to take finer edges and perform well with them. In fact, most high-carbide steels really won't perform that much better than a lower-end steel without better edge geometry at all. I have seen S110V hold an edge about as long as S35VN in testing, because both edges were too obtuse. Once they were taken down to a better geometry for cutting though, both steels performed much better, and S110V soared above the S35Vn blade, as it should have from the beginning.
 
rodriguez7 said:
I have a cold steel ultimate hunter, it's not a bad knife, just looking at stepping up to something better. Cts-Xhp is ok, mine went dull skinning an elk head the other day, I'm thinking cpms30 would have held up better, more vanadium.
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Doubt it. The Ultimate Hunter is run significantly harder than most XHP, in the 62-64 range. At that hardness it blows most S30V out of the water in terms of edge retention.
 
Charlie Mike said:
Totally forgot about CS. I've been known to carry a pair of Rajah 2 folders.

[video=youtube;OWylqMcMpEE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWylqMcMpEE[/video]
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Thats awesome dude. Just got an xl voyager tanto, and this will be my next. Getting tired of small folders..
 
Get something different from what you currently have. There's tons of review videos to watch, pick out a few you'd like to have, watch the videos and see which one suits your needs.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Doubt it. The Ultimate Hunter is run significantly harder than most XHP, in the 62-64 range. At that hardness it blows most S30V out of the water in terms of edge retention.
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I figured the same thing after what I had read! It dulled just skinning my elk head, but cutting through elk hair is pretty rough. No clue, edge was sharpened to 20 degrees per side on my sharp maker, then stropped with green compound.
 
Ajack60 said:
Get something different from what you currently have. There's tons of review videos to watch, pick out a few you'd like to have, watch the videos and see which one suits your needs.
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That's what I've been doing, just wanted some opinions and feedback.
 
The Kershaw Knockout is a good folder for dirty jobs. Great blade steel, tough lock, big enough for most tasks and slim in the pocket. The blade is a little short for batoning, if that's going to be a frequent use.
 
rodriguez7 said:
Just curious. My birthday is coming up, and I'm in the market for a new folder, the catch is, I'm looking for something extremely durable, that has good edge holding steel. Currently I have an adamas, I'm thinking of stepping up to a strider sng, or smf. Are they any more durable? Is it worth spending the money, am I really upgrading? Or should I just stick to my adamas? Maybe going with the benchmade loco. I'm having a hard time deciding. Thanks
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Strider SnG is a very cool knife and I like mine a lot but all of the typical Strider issues were present in my example, the most frustrating of which was a brutally sticky lock. There is definitely an intangible "awesomeness" quality to the knife, however, bear in mind how damn expensive a potentially imperfect specimen can be. A tanto CRK Umnumzaan has a "YES!" quality as well, similar price, and better craftmanship.

All that said, my next folding knife will be a Benchmade Loco. I prefer the company to the other two and their warranty/service/temperament is far superior to the aforementioned, in my opinion. Plus, how sick does that beastly blacked out 808 look?? With the $200+ bucks you save, you could have a pretty wicked birthday celebration with your favorite lady friend. What Would Glenn Quagmire Do? Giggity giggity goo.

Any way you chose, you'll probably end up with a super sick blade. Good luck in your decision. :thumbup:
 
rodriguez7 said:
I figured the same thing after what I had read! It dulled just skinning my elk head, but cutting through elk hair is pretty rough. No clue, edge was sharpened to 20 degrees per side on my sharp maker, then stropped with green compound.
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I hear you, I have no trouble believing that the edge was pretty done after skinning an elk.ots of stuff that can dull a blade darn fast doing that, I just doubt that S30V would have done any better in the same circumstances. It's also completely possible that you got a dud.
 
Go with something from Ferrum Forge. I know Elliott places huge emphasis on quality and durability. Not only that but his knives are amazingly well crafted and he will always take care of it for you if you ever have the need. I can't recommend him enough. There have been dozens have great suggestions but I would go with a Ferrum Forge folder over any of them any day due to how much time is spent on each individual knife by the makers hands.
 
The Adamas is one big thick knife. If you want a Sng, kinda the same knife, not that there is anything wrong with that. If I was going to spend your cash, I'd go with a Chris Reeve/Wilson Combat Startac. Sexy as hell and a real performer too, love mine.
 
rodriguez7 said:
I'm thinking between an sng and Xm-18. Just trying to figure out which one is built more stout! Thanks.
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That's a tough one. I currently have an XM-18 and an SMF. I will have to say that the SMF/SNG is a stronger design with the integrated back spacer rather than standoffs.

There is a little more flex in the XM. It's still a crazy solid knife but just a step behind the strider.

Aside from that......both are amazingly strong knives that I've put through hell!! . I have a review thread with lots of pictures of me beating on the XM-18.
 
Other than the lock, I'm curious how much tougher the design of the hinderer or strider is than something like the adamas? Real world constuction type use.
 
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