Easiest steel to heat treat?

[Troop]

From your list, I'd go with O-1. (Don't even think about oil quenching an air hardening steel, unless you like being crucified on-line. )
- Mitch

 

[Bufford]

Sometimes knifemaking is about experimenting. Early in the game I didn't have a HT oven. I started with 01 and used the torches to get the blades non metalic hot, before plunging the blade in used motor oil. The results were good, but there was alot of scale to grind off. I used the kitchen oven to double temper for toughness.

Then after watching a couple of nicely polished 01 blades rust, I moved on to the stainless steels. I did well using torches to HT 440C. I would 'guesstimate' soaking temperature by the color of orange hot steel. Keep the torch moving up and down the blade for even temperature and to reduce the chances of warpage. Do this for 25 minutes, these will be about the longest 25 minutes to deal with. Then quench in oil, and temper at 400F. Some of these blades have the best edge holding I have made.

Due to the scale build up from using the torch I gave in and bought a Paragon oven. Good control, and very reliable. I have only changed the elements once, in over 20 years of use.

 

[Larrin]

From your list, I'd go with O-1. (Don't even think about oil quenching an air hardening steel, unless you like being crucified on-line. )
- Mitch

There's nothing wrong with oil quenching an air hardening steel. Why would you be crucified?

 

[Troop]

There's nothing wrong with oil quenching an air hardening steel. Why would you be crucified?

Why??? Now THAT'S the $ 64,000.00 question!
- Mitch

 

[Dan Gray]

I'm guessing you are looking to stock grind..
I'd say use O1 ..
not that this should be THE WAY but more this is just my 2 cents. though it may not be as optimal as can be but for a new guy it will get you started with as few disappointments as possible.

with the heat method you mention, as long as you can reach 1500 deg F and keep the whole edge there for 5-10 min. and not over heat it,

01 is very forgiving just do not grind the edge to thin, at much under .025 in a hollow grind you can get warping ( wrinkled edge),after the quench
then you can use a toaster oven or your house oven to temper/draw the steel back to the Rockwell you want. just make sure the temperature is accurate. around 430 degs or just under will do for most EDC knives..

you will need to regrind afterwards to get the edge thickness that you want depending on your needs for the knife, thickness wise.

keeping things simple don't foil wrap it for the quench, you'll need to get it from the heat and into the quench before it cools below the critical temp.
then temper it once it's to about hand handling temp, room temp will work.

once tempered, you'll need to grind off the dead decarborized
steel.. just allow .005- .0010 or so thickness
for this , just do not over heat the edge while the regrinding, you'll over temper those places that turn blue and softening it .

air hardening steel?.
S30V
CPM154CM
154CM
ATS34
440C < if you are carefull you can O&A this steel..

if you should happen to be able to keep your heat at ~ 1900 deg F. for 15 min or more, most all of the air hardening steels will be the easiest with-out problems of thin edges , you should protect the steel in a heat foil or a PBC
anti scale to keep it from decarberation. quenching in air or plates is a piece of cake.. then temper.

as Kevin says , you have give and takes with any steel you use, use wise and in the working of them.
the 10xx steels need to cool/quench faster than O1
( this is not to say that 1095 cools faster than O1 from the oven to the quench) I see this misconception stated some times.
, it's more to do with the quenching oils ability to cool the steel faster, rather
than the time to the quench oil from the heat of the oven. it's in oil quench speed,, some steels need faster quenching than others hench the diferant oils..or waters/brines.
veggie oil won't do it for most of the 10XX 's
most of the time..I won't say won't work here
, water or brine yes but you'll have more chance of the dreaded crack bang pop, tink, you wanted easy..

but when all is said and done , for the new guy with very little to work with and who wants little problems along the way go with O1 and still come out with a great knife for all practical proposes , O1 was made to be forgiven in the first place..

for bare min input tool wise..
I still use an O&A torch and a toaster oven for small O1 blades and use Texaco A for the quench, though I did use veggie oil for years.. at 130 deg F
Just my two cents..and been there..
also if you do want to go with say 1095 you can use Brownells tough quench
but you will have to preheat it to ~ 130 deg's F for it to draw the heat from the steel fast enough to work..

 

[Dan Gray]

Originally Posted by Troop
From your list, I'd go with O-1. (Don't even think about oil quenching an air hardening steel, unless you like being crucified on-line. )
- Mitch

Why??? Now THAT'S the $ 64,000.00 question!
- Mitch

Originally Posted by Larrin
There's nothing wrong with oil quenching an air hardening steel. Why would you be crucified?

where in the hell is my sharp poking stick when I need it
it has been done, can be done, and will be done, and works though I'm not sure why someone would what the mess when you can control the Rock with the temper :foot:

 

[LRB]

I may sound like a heretic, but in my experience, a Nicholson file is almost fool proof to come through a simple heat treat with outstanding performance. I worked with them off and on, for over ten years, on a regular basis. They hold not a good edge, but a great edge, and if they are softened on the spine, they make excellent knives. Very rugged. I realize that I will catch hell for such a simple treat, but, normalize if forged, heat to red-orange in dim light. Quench in ATF. Sand until bright clean. Carefully run a propane torch over it until you get a brown color at the edge, three times, Then put it in a pan of water, about 3/8" deep, edge down, and heat the spine until it goes through all the colors then becomes neutral. After this, carefully heat the point area to a purple peacock color, CAREFULLY and SLOWLY!!! At this point you will have a more than adequate heat treat for that steel, and it will hold an edge very well. From this you can move on to even better steels, but this will give you a very usable knife, relatively easily done. I apologize to all for such a simple approach,. but I guarantee it works. With Nicholson file steel, at any rate. I am sure it ain't the best, but it is impressive for the sake of simplicity, and that's what this guy is looking for.

 

[LRB]

I may sound like a heretic, but in my experience, a Nicholson file is almost fool proof to come through a simple heat treat with outstanding performance. I worked with them off and on, for over ten years, on a regular basis. They hold not a good edge, but a great edge, and if they are softened on the spine, they make excellent knives. Very rugged. I realize that I will catch hell for such a simple treat, but, normalize if forged, heat to red-orange in dim light. Quench in ATF warmed to 125o. Sand until bright clean. Carefully run a propane torch over it until you get a brown color at the edge, three times, Then put it in a pan of water, about 3/8" deep, edge down, and heat the spine until it goes through all the colors and then becomes neutral. Stop this short of the point. After that, carefully heat the point area to a purple peacock color, CAREFULLY and SLOWLY!!! At this point you will have a more than adequate heat treat for that steel, and it will hold an edge very well. From this you can move on to even better steels, but this will give you a very usable knife, relatively easily done. I apologize to all for such a simple approach,. but I guarantee it works. With Nicholson file steel, at any rate. I am sure it ain't the best, but it is impressive for the sake of simplicity, and that's what this guy is looking for.

 

[3wolves]

I may sound like a heretic, but in my experience, a Nicholson file is almost fool proof to come through a simple heat treat with outstanding performance. I worked with them off and on, for over ten years, on a regular basis. They hold not a good edge, but a great edge, and if they are softened on the spine, they make excellent knives. Very rugged. I realize that I will catch hell for such a simple treat, but, normalize if forged, heat to red-orange in dim light. Quench in ATF. Sand until bright clean. Carefully run a propane torch over it until you get a brown color at the edge, three times, Then put it in a pan of water, about 3/8" deep, edge down, and heat the spine until it goes through all the colors then becomes neutral. After this, carefully heat the point area to a purple peacock color, CAREFULLY and SLOWLY!!! At this point you will have a more than adequate heat treat for that steel, and it will hold an edge very well. From this you can move on to even better steels, but this will give you a very usable knife, relatively easily done. I apologize to all for such a simple approach,. but I guarantee it works. With Nicholson file steel, at any rate. I am sure it ain't the best, but it is impressive for the sake of simplicity, and that's what this guy is looking for.

I already made a knife from a nicholson file. I wanted to try blade steel but the heat treating is all too confusing for now so I guess Ill order some S30V and send it in to be proffessionaly heat treated. Its not that expensive and that way Ill get more stock removal practice before I start the H.T and the S30V

 

[Dan Gray]

I already made a knife from a nicholson file. I wanted to try blade steel but the heat treating is all too confusing for now so I guess Ill order some S30V and send it in to be proffessionaly heat treated. Its not that expensive and that way Ill get more stock removal practice before I start the H.T and the S30V

to bad you weren't closer ..
other than the draw down TIME we could heat treat an O1 blade with O&A faster than you could set up the shipping of your S30V blade and you'd learn how to do it..

 

[Kessik221]

Im an amateur and ive had really good luck with 01 and magnet/color test. I made a simple forge from a 50 gallon steel drum that i salvaged from a side job, a black iron pipe, some wood ashe and dirt. Basically i took the drum And fill it halfway with dirt. Then i take a hole saw and cut a hole big enough for the pipe to slide through both sides (think pig roast). I then cap one end of the pipe. Drill several holes in the pipe (facing up inside the drum). Then i take a hair dryer and ducktape it to the end thats not capped. This is your blower. Then i take a 5 gallon bucket and fill it half way with sifted wood ash ( it has to be real fine no chunks) and mix it with water. You want the mixture to be real thick and muddy. Then i use it and build up a bowl oo r cavern around the pipe ( dont cover the pipe). It took about a day in cold ny weather to dry. Then your forge is ready to go. I burn coal in mine and the hair dryer on low is more than enough to bellow up the forge. Dont overstuff your forge but make sure to pack it tight. I do my heat treat ment closer to evening twilight As the color is hard to tell in daylight. I use an old stereo magnet attached to a wrench with metal wire. When the magnet doesnt stick and the metal is cherry red quench it with oil. Then toss em in the oven at 450 for 2 hours and cool. Hope that helps i know i read a lot of info before starting and it was overwhelming.

 

[jdm61]

The Walking Thread. I am sure that in the ensuing nine years, the OP has either figured this out or given up trying.

 

[Kessik221]

My bad i was googling didnt see the necro

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Kessik,
Welcome to Shop Talk. Fill out our profile so we know a bit about you.

When searching for info, look at the original date of a thread so as not to necropost an old dead thread.

Just a FYI, but your HT method for O-1 is not sufficient. O-1 requires a 5-10 minute soak at 1475-1500F before the quench. Your temper of 450F is OK for a rough use blade, but 400-425 would give you more edge life. The stickys has some good HT threads. Also, a search will get lots of O-1 and other steel HT info to read.

Your forge sounds inventive. Shows what can be done with little investment if needed. Maybe not perfect, but workable. Out of curiosity, what kind of coal are you burning?

I observed a temporary sword forge very much like your setup. It was a pipe with a bunch of holes in it set in the bottom of a long trench in the ground. The sides were packed with a dirt/sand/ash adobe to make the fire pot. An old hair dryer provided the air supply ( the type with a hose and a plastic hood for the head). Charcoal was burned in it to do the yaki-ire for the sword.

 

[jrrector]

What exactly is a fantastic oil quench? I was planning on motor oil but I never knew one was better than another? Is motor oil any good? My flame will be simple, either an extremely hot fire or a propane torch.

for the love of all things Holy DO NOT USE MOTOR OIL.....A.) the additives in it can bugger your steel B.) more importanly the fumes are HARMFUL

use either a commercial quenchent like Parks 50 or if your broke like me Canola Oil works for simpler steels

 

[Kessik221]

Kessik,
Welcome to Shop Talk. Fill out our profile so we know a bit about you.

When searching for info, look at the original date of a thread so as not to necropost an old dead thread.

Just a FYI, but your HT method for O-1 is not sufficient. O-1 requires a 5-10 minute soak at 1475-1500F before the quench. Your temper of 450F is OK for a rough use blade, but 400-425 would give you more edge life. The stickys has some good HT threads. Also, a search will get lots of O-1 and other steel HT info to read.

Your forge sounds inventive. Shows what can be done with little investment if needed. Maybe not perfect, but workable. Out of curiosity, what kind of coal are you burning?

I observed a temporary sword forge very much like your setup. It was a pipe with a bunch of holes in it set in the bottom of a long trench in the ground. The sides were packed with a dirt/sand/ash adobe to make the fire pot. An old hair dryer provided the air supply ( the type with a hose and a plastic hood for the head). Charcoal was burned in it to do the yaki-ire for the sword.

Thanks for the tip will do currently stuck on a smartphone once i get back home ill update my stuff. The type of coal i use is bitumous(sp?) Coal. There was a close friend selling it and he gave me 25# for free to start.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

That is the right type. It should be crushed to look like gravel and coarse sand, with a few peanut size chunks. You don't want large chunks.

 

[jdm61]

Necro reponse

 

[Jefflynn]

Stacy, what book do you recommend.?

 

[Jefflynn]

Knife making book. I get tired of looking at this smart phone