Easiest way to make a knife with few tools?

Brian Avila

Brian Avila

Joined
Jan 2, 2011
Messages
1,286
I've been checking out the posts and looking at the stickies and maybe you guys could point me in the right direction because I am really confused and mind boggled with all the info.

I really like the knives that I see people are making and they are awesome. I would like to learn how to make knives but I don't have a forge and I don't know anyone in my area that makes knives.

Could someone tell me what type of metal to use and how I could "temper" or "harden" with out a forge, maybe using a blow torch and what type of metal I could use to do it?

I want to be able to get a piece of metal, design my shape, cut out the blank, work the metal without a power grinder ( so by hand ) and harden the metal so I can learn how to make a knife.

I am looking to do it this way because I don't have all the tools and I don't really have a big space to work in, etc.

Hope I don't piss you guys off, I'm just so overwhelmed by info that I really don't know what to say or ask or do.
 
I did my first knife completely with hand tools, and the only power tool that was used by me was a drill. I sent the blade out for HT, because for the money its worth making sure its done right, especially if you put all that time and effort into it. I also did a Work In Progress thread on it here

In fact I still am making most of my knives with hand tools, but I almost have my 2X72 grinder ready to go so this one I am working on now may be the last done mainly with hand tools. Pretty much any steel can be shaped with basic hand tools in its soft state, but I would recommend a carbon steel over stainless to start just because its cheaper and not as frustrating if something goes wrong and you have to scrap it. I also found making things in twos helped, what I screwed up on the first one I could correct or avoid on the second. O-1 is nice to wok with if you get someone else to do the HT because you can get it precision ground, making it easier to finish. I was actually able to HT 1084 in a coffee can forge and quenched with canola oil, but if I am selling or giving the knife away it is ht'd by the pros not me.

George
 
This should answer most of your questions.

You can use just hand tools and stock removal, send it out for heat treat.






Have you seen this ?

The Standard Reply to New Knifemakers v11

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, or you may have a helpful neighbour; but that depends on where you are.
Fill out your profile with your location (Country and State at least), age, education, employment.

Look at the threads stickied at the top; many are expired, but not all.

The basic process in the simplest terms

Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E.Apelt

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-Website



Books

A list of books and videos on the KnifeDogs Forum
http://www.knifedogs.com/showthread.php?t=5285

BladeForums - E-books or Google books
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
These are clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:
On the Google books thread, you can find
Lloyd Harding drawings
and
the Loveless book with large variety of proven classic styles.
Google books thread


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging in general - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books on forging knives. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF

Machine Shop Tools-Printable PDF

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable PDF


The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

The goop quench is total Bull, commercial quench oils are available, even grocery store canola oil works much better.

Junkyard steels require skill and experience to identify the steel and heat treat it properly.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply.

I like cable damascus, but that advanced project has no place in a beginners book.

The home built grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is now a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days and you will understand it much better.
http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Many specific how to knifemaking videos are available, some are better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

The best video on leather sheath making I have seen is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 new videos, his sheath work is fantastic. I hope the videos are too)

You can see a list of videos and reviews at this rental company; some are worth buying, some renting…
They are slow to get new titles and wait times are measured in months,
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
You can also find it on YouTube broken into 4 parts.

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
If you send out for heat treating, you can use A2, CM154, ATS34, s30v, 440C, plus many others.

If you heat treat yourself, find some 1070, 1080, 1084,
1084 FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated just for knifemaking.

You can find a list of suppliers here
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Aldo is highly rated.
http://njsteelbaron.com/


Heat Treating
You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

This PDF brochure gives a good overview
http://www.buckknives.com/resources/pdf/Paul_Bos_Brochure.pdf

http://www.petersheattreat.com/
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/about_us.php
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig .
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg

Entry Level Grinders
Many makers start with the Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinders
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders

Mapp arm – Grinder Toolrest
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=466024


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone
Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
Free plans
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html


Safety Equipment

Respirators

bladsmth said:
Those paper paint masks are about as effective as using a sock for a condom.
Click to expand...

The minimum I would consider are the 3M and North silicone half masks;
even better are the powered positive pressure fresh air systems.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=788837
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=726309
 
I guess I have been slacking 12345678910, thanks for that post. It will take me a while to get through it. unky_gumbi, your wip is awesome thanks for that, your project was great.

If I can have someone heat treat my metal and then I can use files and a drill then I should be set. Let me look through some of the info and see if I have any more questions.

Keep it coming. I appreciate it all.
 
The first knife tutorial I have in the stickys is just what you want. I would go with whatever type of steel you wish the finished knife to be, and send it to one of the many makers here to be heat treated. There might be one near you who will have you over to do the HT and give you a few pointers.

A few files, some sandpaper, and a C-clamp are all the tools you need to make a knife. A hand drill, or access to a drill press for the tang holes will complete the tool list.

Here's the deal.
As a fellow scientist ( former research chemist),we need to stick together when surrounded by the bunch of neo-tribal reprobates around this forum.
I will make up a kit and send it to you ( haven't made up one lately). It will have the needed files, the steel, and sanding papers. Follow the tutorial ( I'll print a copy and include it), and make your knife. When ready, send it to me and I will do the HT. I will return it with some top grade handle scales and finishing materials.
Your end of the deal is to do the work as a WIP and post the progress and questions here.

How's that sound to you.
 
Wow, bladsmth. I love to hear about other scientists doing stuff like this. Even though my background is in physics, I am doing research on Rainbow trout here in Colorado. Yeah we got to stick together.

It sounds really good. I will pm you with my email address so we can talk further about this deal.
 
Some of my fondest memories combine Physics and Trout.
Nearly six decades ago,I was trained in physics and math, starting at the age of 3 by my grandfather, physicist Leland J. Stacy. He was the inventor of the dial phone ( among other things). He moved to New Hampshire when he retired from Bell Labs, and spent a lot of his time fishing for trout. I spent my summers up there from age three to nine. Early in the morning, he and I would walk down to the brook and catch two 6-8" brook trout . He would gut them with his pen knife and wash them in the brook.Then we would go back up to the house and grandma would drop them right in a pan and fry them...they were swimming less than five minutes earlier. We would roll them in a piece of mayonnaised bread, and eat them from tail to lips.

One of the funniest things about the farm in NH was that even though he had invented the selective station dial phone ( the system that allowed me to call you directly without an operator), the little town of Meredin, NH had only three party lines and an operator named Sarah. All calls went through her. Our "ring tone" was "two longs and a short". You are far too young to know what that means.

As to me, I became a research Chemist at age 18 for Virginia Chemicals. I was the youngest research chemist they ever had. I was half the age of everyone I worked with...one third of many of them. The job required a degree in chemistry, but I applied anyway. I had a 700 on my chemistry boards ( back when that was a near impossible score). Just to get rid of me,I was politely allowed to talk to Dr.Winslow, who ran the lab, and he showed me around. At one point he asked me to tell him what I saw the people doing. I looked around and said, "Titrating some samples of a product from the plant for analysis." He asked if I could do that, and I said that I had a lab at my house that was capable of doing that work.He asked where I was trained to do titration, and I told him I taught myself. He hired me. I developed paper chemicals and defoamers for the compny for several years. From there I went many directions, i did electronic engineering for the government ( again with no degree), food management and chef work ( self taught), jewelry ( self taught) and knives ( self taught)....you are probably getting to see a pattern here.
 
That is absolutely awesome Stacy. I have a lot of respect for people like you. I wish I was smart enough to go into a job like that with no degree. I had to go to school and get my physics degree and work really hard to "fall" into my fish job. I'm not complaining though, you have to go through that stuff sometimes and when you do, you are better off in life. I appreciate your help and comments.

I am teaching myself how to make a violin though and its really hard, so I understand some of the types of things you had to go through.

Here is to starting a knife project! I just started the thread and I will do the WIP.
 
Wow, I love this forum... the man has 12 posts to his name and is treated like a brother.

TheWeatherman... here is to filling out your profile, buddy. I have a hunch that helped you out. Sincerity will take you far.


Rick
 
Thanks, I don't do forum stuff very often because people usually give new people a hard time (me in general), but after reading stuff here I decided to try to make a profile and post.

Thanks again!

I agree I love this forum!!!!!
 
Last edited:
bladsmth said:
Nearly six decades ago,I was trained in physics and math, starting at the age of 3 by my grandfather, physicist Leland J. Stacy. He was the inventor of the dial phone ( among other things).know what that means.
Click to expand...

From Google:

The dial phone was invented in the 1880s by Almond Brown Stroger, who was a Kansas City, MO undertaker and was convinced that the Bell Telephone operator was sending calls for his funeral home to the operator's brother-in-law... Stroger invented the dial telephone and installed automatic exchanges in the US and Europe. In 1924, the Bell Telephone System decided that using operators was NOT the way to go, and they licensed Stroger's technology. The step by step switch used to receive the dial pulses is/was called a Stroger Switch, after its inventor.
 
Can you really believe everything you find on the internet? Maybe or maybe not. But Stacy is a nice guy and I appreciate his help and everyone else's help.
 
TheWeatherman said:
Can you really believe everything you find on the internet? Maybe or maybe not. But Stacy is a nice guy and I appreciate his help and everyone else's help.
Click to expand...

Not sure what your point is, but who do you think spoke ill of Stacy?? NO ONE. No need for that stuff. I'm a history buff driven by curiosity. You may see things differently of course and that's fine, but FACTS ARE FACTS. Don't try to make this into a pissing match 'cause your in it alone...out and peace.
 
Just to clarify things:
I re-read my post, and apparently in editing the second sentence , I had back-spaced over two words. What I had originally written was that he invented the Selective Station Dial Phone, and the system to make it work.
Larry, I don't have his patents in front of me, but when I get a chance, I will pull them out send you the patent numbers. The original dial phone you speak of could not work with the number of customers getting phones by the late 1920's. Bell labs wanted to have a system where a person could call any recipient in the local area without need for an operator. This took a larger relay network than was available ( the existing one could only handle a limited amount of numbers, so there were many smaller networks, which the operators connected). My grandfather invented the selective Station Dial Phone in the late 20's. However, the patent was not approved until the early 30's because there was no relay system capable of handling the decoding ( basically a cypher lock relay system). After he patented the new relays, the selective station dial phone patent was approved. He received a sizable bonus award from Bell Labs for what they called an "Industry Changing Invention".

His system allowed the number of phones in the system to be greatly larger, and to speed the placement of calls. Later, by adding area codes to the system ( and making the numbers decoded larger), operators were eliminated from connecting long distance calls. In my youth, you had to dial "O" to get connected to a number outside your local area.

One of his first patents was for a vacuum tube that was an amplifier. He developed it when working on improving the radio receiver .
When WWI broke out, he went down to enlist. The army saw he had a PHD, but was still a young man. They asked him what kind of work he was doing, and he said he was working for Bell Labs and had been working on improving Marconi's radio transmissions. They told him to go home and they would tell him when to report. The next week they commissioned him a second lieutenant and told him to report back to his lab at Bell and to continue his work. They said he was far more useful there than fighting in Europe. He never was even issued a uniform. He was discharged as a full lieutenant two weeks after the war ended. He continued to work on the improvements and applied for the tube patent a few years later.

I have passed some of his items along to my daughter, and among them is a photograph of him and Albert Einstein at a conference at Princeton in the late 1940's. They both campaigned against bigotry, against nuclear arms, encouraged non-violence, and had hopes that improvements in technology would improve chances for world peace. It is a sad commentary on man's progress that seventy years later we are not much farther along today on those issues.
 
bladsmth said:
Just to clarify things:

I have passed some of his items along to my daughter, and among them is a photograph of him and Albert Einstein at a conference at Princeton in the late 1940's. They both campaigned against bigotry, against nuclear arms, encouraged non-violence, and had hopes that improvements in technology would improve chances for world peace. It is a sad commentary on man's progress that seventy years later we are not much farther along today on those issues.
Click to expand...

That's quite a piece of family history.
I'd love to read the patents too
 
Impressive indeed!! When you get the chance and are so inclined please pass them along. This is becoming a "History Detective" thing and it's very interesting and my old cop's nose itches. His name does not come up in the patent data base, so whatever he did may have come under the umbrella of employers owing property developed by employees. Cannot find his name connected to any of the Bell Labs (old AT&T) historical data and development time lines, although there are many names given credit for developments connected to specific advances. Perhaps he was under contract to Bell Labs rather than an employee?

If you like please PM or email so we don't continue to distract from the OPs thread :)
 
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