-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ -
America has reached 250 years, and I am grateful to be here, in the best country in the world. Thank every one of you who helps make this country a better place, those who have gone before and risked it all, and those who've paid the ultimate price to make the United States what we are today.
Happy Birthday America! Let Freedom Ring for all time!
easy sharpening?
- Thread starter 110417
- Start date
When it come to sharpening, easy and cheap are kind of mutually exclusive. Freehand with sandpaper or bench stones is the cheapest (you could get started with sandpaper for under 20 bucks), something like the Edge Pro or Wicked Edge is the easiest.
In between, you have systems like a sharpmaker which is sort of a middle ground between freehand and a fully guided system. Prices are somewhere in the middle.
I recommend freehand, not only because its cheap but because its fun to do. There is a learning curve- I suggest starting out with a cheap knife you don't care about. If you're not concerned with devoloping that skill, or you want a more guaranteed outcome, then I'd recommend a Sharpmaker or a similar system, like the lansky.
Searching this site, google, or you tube you can learn everything you'd ever want to know about the relative mertis of each system.
In between, you have systems like a sharpmaker which is sort of a middle ground between freehand and a fully guided system. Prices are somewhere in the middle.
I recommend freehand, not only because its cheap but because its fun to do. There is a learning curve- I suggest starting out with a cheap knife you don't care about. If you're not concerned with devoloping that skill, or you want a more guaranteed outcome, then I'd recommend a Sharpmaker or a similar system, like the lansky.
Searching this site, google, or you tube you can learn everything you'd ever want to know about the relative mertis of each system.
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2011
- Messages
- 1,140
well cheapest is going to be sand paper or stones as was said before, but the easiest is going to be the sharpmaker or worksharp.
I personally have a worksharp and I love it for sharpening my blades. It does like some blades more than others, but sharpens all very very well.
as a bonus, it seems to work good for axes, hatches, machetes, and the like as well. Whenever I get around to taking my lawnmower blades off, I will be sharpening them with it too.
I love sharpening with freehand on stones...but I am no where near mastering it yet and want sharp knives. I practice on a set of stones with knives that I dont use as much. Whenever I get it down, I will still use the work sharp for sharpening things other than knives.
I personally have a worksharp and I love it for sharpening my blades. It does like some blades more than others, but sharpens all very very well.
as a bonus, it seems to work good for axes, hatches, machetes, and the like as well. Whenever I get around to taking my lawnmower blades off, I will be sharpening them with it too.
I love sharpening with freehand on stones...but I am no where near mastering it yet and want sharp knives. I practice on a set of stones with knives that I dont use as much. Whenever I get it down, I will still use the work sharp for sharpening things other than knives.
The sharpmaker has Diamond stones for reprofiling at an extra charge and should work fine with the set angles within the Sharpmaker depending on your knife!
I heard that ones like the Wicked Edge dont work good for FFG knives like the Delica but not sure if that is true. Perhaps some experience sharpeners can weigh in on that?
I am looking at a Wicked Edge but man, they are pricey.
I would love to learn freehand but I am afraid of not getting the angle right so how do you make sure you have the right angle when going freehand?
Jason B.
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2007
- Messages
- 11,233
Easy and sharpening don't go together until you have many years of experience. Even then its not a sure thing.
The sharpmaker, Norton combo India stone, a small waterstone set, wet/dry sandpaper, DMT C/F benchstone, or a belt sander if you feel apt.
All will produce excellent results in a skilled hand.
The sharpmaker, Norton combo India stone, a small waterstone set, wet/dry sandpaper, DMT C/F benchstone, or a belt sander if you feel apt.
All will produce excellent results in a skilled hand.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2009
- Messages
- 13,646
It baffles me, as to how this perception got started. I've also heard the same for any of the other clamped systems (Lansky, Gatco, DMT Aligner). To me, FFG blades are the easiest, by far, to clamp. The only thing that might strike some as a 'problem' (and I don't see it as such), is that the clamp's two sides won't be parallel to each other on an FFG blade, if it's clamped properly, fully flush to the blade's sides, which maximizes the contact area for holding the blade tight. The only thing altered, by the clamp's sides not being parallel, is the assumed sharpening angle, as the clamp's sides are effectively angled inward towards each other. If one expects to hit an exact number of degrees, according to marked increments on the clamp, that will be changed. However, the bigger factor in hitting that magic number is the size and shape of the blade itself, and it's position inside the clamp. And, if the exact number is that important, the angle should be measured with a gauge anyway, and the blade position adjusted to fit it (further into, or further out, of the clamp).
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 6,642
The easiest is freehanding - once you've learned how. As for cheap, it can cost a lot to find just the right tools to express yourself. Even if you can do a very good job with a 7 dollar hardware store whetstone, you'll likely want something that does a nicer job. I have a crate filled with hundreds of dollars worth of stones and compounds yet most often use a couple of 25.00 waterstones.
I just whipped up an edge on a 14" Imacasa machete (with factory "duller than a butterknife" edge) using a file, a 1200 grit King waterstone, and some newspaper. I haven't tried it, but pretty sure based on how easily and almost silently it crosscuts newspaper, and how completely it shaves the hair off my arm that I could shave my face with it. The tools are relatively simple and cheap, but learning to use them well hasn't been what I would describe as "easy" (though not as difficult as some would have you believe). There's lots of help out there, read all you can and watch plenty of videos.
I just whipped up an edge on a 14" Imacasa machete (with factory "duller than a butterknife" edge) using a file, a 1200 grit King waterstone, and some newspaper. I haven't tried it, but pretty sure based on how easily and almost silently it crosscuts newspaper, and how completely it shaves the hair off my arm that I could shave my face with it. The tools are relatively simple and cheap, but learning to use them well hasn't been what I would describe as "easy" (though not as difficult as some would have you believe). There's lots of help out there, read all you can and watch plenty of videos.
The first thing is to not be afraid. If you are overly worried about screwing it up, you probably will, because you will be over-correcting. The keys, mentally, are patience and consistency. You want to be in a Zen-like state. Focused, but not anxious. Get a cheap knife you don't care about scratching up, if that helps you.
Second, a magic marker is your friend. Paint the edge bevels with it, and take a test pass. What you want is to see all of the marker removed evenly- that means you have matched the angle. If it did not remove evenly, you will need to raise or lower the spine slightly. Do this a lot in the beginning, so that you can memorize in your hands the way it feels when the angle is right.
Third, start with a scandi grind. Get yourself a mora, which is a sub-$20 Swedish knife. It has a single large edge bevel, unlike most knives which have a small edge bevel at the end of a larger primary grind. The large bevel of the Mora will actually rest itself on the stone, so as long as you keep some light pressure against the stone on the edge, it will just lay there at the correct angle. This will help you get the feeling down without having to really control the angle. The trickiest part of the sharpening stroke is when you sweep down the belly curve, because you have to raise the handle end while pushing forward the tip in a smooth motion. The mora will do this somewhat automatically, which helps you learn what it should feel like. Plus, you will have a very good (and very sharp) knife when you're done.
Keep your wrists locked. Move at the knees, waist, torso, shoulders, and elbows. Control your breathing. It's kind of like aiming a gun, same sort of focus. Watch YouTube videos of people sharpening, see how they move and hold the knife ( but do NOT watch any videos by expert village :barf
Hope that helps.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2010
- Messages
- 6,642
Without knowing what kinds of steel your cutlery is made of, I'd recommend an 8" Norton combination Crystalon stone and strop on newspaper or leather. Use it with mineral oil, or better yet soapy water. After that I just don't know. Diamonds do a real nice job, as do the Spyderco ceramic benchstones, Norton India stone, waterstones, sandpaper etc. There are so many options (I personally feel waterstones are the best choice) that's why I say just get a good-quality silicon carbide stone, learn how to freehand, then start snooping around for other choices. You'll be able to put a very good edge on pretty much any steel using a SiC stone, it'll never sit unused for long even if you expand your collection.
- Joined
- May 28, 1999
- Messages
- 2,606
I recommend a handful of cheap kitchen knives, the wide, soft blades make excellent practice as they quicky form a burr which you'll need to remove, which is the basis for pretty much all hand sharpening methods. Move onto narrower meat carving knives, the narrow blade makes keeping consistent angles more difficult.
The critical skill in hand sharpening is muscle memory, and being able to mechanically repeat the motion. Don't go fast at first, learn how to keep the blade locked into one sweeping motion that doesn't need constant adjustmentments. Once your body remembers how to do this then speed will come naturally. While it's difficult to put on a perfectly flat bevel by hand, the transition from edge bevel to main grind should be sharp and well defined. (though it need not be if you like that sort of thing)
Stones, I recommend something that stays flat. I don't think you should be learning how to keep a stone flat while you're learning to sharpen at the same time. I was about to recommend a diamond stone, but these tend to wear out quickly on softer steels if the user puts too much pressure on them, which is almost certain to happen while you're learning. When you gain a light touch hand sharpening, and are working with CPM or other very hard alloy steels diamond stones are great. While waterstones are my favorite for hand sharpening, most of them are soft and difficult to use on western narrow bevel knives as they gouge easily. A cheap silicon carbide stone actually works well with good technique, and if you don't put too much pressure on them they stay flat for a good while. They're good to have around anyways for removing damage from bad edges before moving on to finer grits.
If you decide to move onto waterstones, the 1 stone I recommend without reservation is the shapton Pro 1000 grit. It's the yellow-orange stone that comes with a plastic case. It's very hard for a waterstone, cuts fast for its grit size, and doesn't need flattened often. It's very un-waterstone like for a waterstone, and works great with thin bevels as they're difficult to gouge unless you're trying to do so intentionally. 90% of the time this stone + a quick strop does it start to finish for me.
The critical skill in hand sharpening is muscle memory, and being able to mechanically repeat the motion. Don't go fast at first, learn how to keep the blade locked into one sweeping motion that doesn't need constant adjustmentments. Once your body remembers how to do this then speed will come naturally. While it's difficult to put on a perfectly flat bevel by hand, the transition from edge bevel to main grind should be sharp and well defined. (though it need not be if you like that sort of thing)
Stones, I recommend something that stays flat. I don't think you should be learning how to keep a stone flat while you're learning to sharpen at the same time. I was about to recommend a diamond stone, but these tend to wear out quickly on softer steels if the user puts too much pressure on them, which is almost certain to happen while you're learning. When you gain a light touch hand sharpening, and are working with CPM or other very hard alloy steels diamond stones are great. While waterstones are my favorite for hand sharpening, most of them are soft and difficult to use on western narrow bevel knives as they gouge easily. A cheap silicon carbide stone actually works well with good technique, and if you don't put too much pressure on them they stay flat for a good while. They're good to have around anyways for removing damage from bad edges before moving on to finer grits.
If you decide to move onto waterstones, the 1 stone I recommend without reservation is the shapton Pro 1000 grit. It's the yellow-orange stone that comes with a plastic case. It's very hard for a waterstone, cuts fast for its grit size, and doesn't need flattened often. It's very un-waterstone like for a waterstone, and works great with thin bevels as they're difficult to gouge unless you're trying to do so intentionally. 90% of the time this stone + a quick strop does it start to finish for me.
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2012
- Messages
- 19
A really cheap way to get started freehand sharpening is to get 2 or 3 boards about 15" long and 3" wide of poplar or some other hardwood. You can get poplar boards already planed and the right size from Home Depot. Scroll saw out the handle portion to make a paddle shape and leave a 12" long section rectangular. If you have access to a sander/planer, you can run whatever boards you want through it to make them perfectly flat. Next get some wet/dry sandpaper in the following grits: 220, 400, 600. Also pick up a piece of tooling leather and a small container of jeweler's rouge (very important). I use the red rouge you find in the Dremel section of Home Depot or Lowes. This is not your wife's rouge, so don't use it-it won't work
.Cut the materials into the proper size rectangles (or wait and trim them afterwards) and glue them to the boards, both sides, with waterproof glue. Do 220 and 400 on one board and the 600 and the leather slick side up on another. Write on the boards what grits are on there so you don't forget. Use only enough glue to glue down the paper or leather and press between something really flat while it dries so you have a flat surface to sharpen on. You can trim the edges before you glue it on or after its dry-your choice. Once its dry, charge the leather strop with a small amount of jeweler's rouge. You can spread it as you begin stropping. Important: All sharpening and stropping on these boards must be done with a pull stroke so as not to damage the paper and leather. Once every few months you can wash the paper off with a little water to float out the particles. Do not use oil or water to sharpen with. I hold my knives at about a 20 degree angle and alternate sides. Start with the 220 and work up to the strop. You must understand the dynamics of sharpening-its not voodoo as some would have you believe. A book which gives a good treatise on this and on sharpening boards is Bushcraft by Mors Koschanski. Using the board method, you are still raising a burr as with stones, you just may not be able to feel it as easily as with stones. The mistake most people make is not with sharpening, but with failing to remove the burr formed in sharpening. You can't understand why its not sharp, you sight down the edge, no flat spots, looks sharp but won't shave-been there? I have! The burr is bending back and forth, thats why it won't cut-it has to be removed. When you think it should be sharp but its not, strop it a bit and see if you can shave some arm hair off with it. If it shaves, strop it 20 more times on each side. Stropping will completely remove this burr and give you a long-lasting edge. If you don't remove the burr through stropping it will break off in use and your knife will be instantly dull. This is when some people declare, "this steel won't hold an edge!" They should have stropped! Oh, my lawyer told me to tell you that all of this is dangerous and that you can cut yourself
Please don't go out and spend a bunch of money before you know what you really need. Try the boards and read Koschanski-I think you'll be glad you did!
.Cut the materials into the proper size rectangles (or wait and trim them afterwards) and glue them to the boards, both sides, with waterproof glue. Do 220 and 400 on one board and the 600 and the leather slick side up on another. Write on the boards what grits are on there so you don't forget. Use only enough glue to glue down the paper or leather and press between something really flat while it dries so you have a flat surface to sharpen on. You can trim the edges before you glue it on or after its dry-your choice. Once its dry, charge the leather strop with a small amount of jeweler's rouge. You can spread it as you begin stropping. Important: All sharpening and stropping on these boards must be done with a pull stroke so as not to damage the paper and leather. Once every few months you can wash the paper off with a little water to float out the particles. Do not use oil or water to sharpen with. I hold my knives at about a 20 degree angle and alternate sides. Start with the 220 and work up to the strop. You must understand the dynamics of sharpening-its not voodoo as some would have you believe. A book which gives a good treatise on this and on sharpening boards is Bushcraft by Mors Koschanski. Using the board method, you are still raising a burr as with stones, you just may not be able to feel it as easily as with stones. The mistake most people make is not with sharpening, but with failing to remove the burr formed in sharpening. You can't understand why its not sharp, you sight down the edge, no flat spots, looks sharp but won't shave-been there? I have! The burr is bending back and forth, thats why it won't cut-it has to be removed. When you think it should be sharp but its not, strop it a bit and see if you can shave some arm hair off with it. If it shaves, strop it 20 more times on each side. Stropping will completely remove this burr and give you a long-lasting edge. If you don't remove the burr through stropping it will break off in use and your knife will be instantly dull. This is when some people declare, "this steel won't hold an edge!" They should have stropped! Oh, my lawyer told me to tell you that all of this is dangerous and that you can cut yourself Please don't go out and spend a bunch of money before you know what you really need. Try the boards and read Koschanski-I think you'll be glad you did!
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,647
The sandpaper does not last long so what do you do to replace it? Glueing another layer on?
I am by no means a sharpening expert nor can I achieve a shaving edge consistently yet but what I have learned over the last 2 years (yes, I know, 2 years and not shaving yet ??) is the simpler, the better, not necessarily the cheaper the better. A good example is stopping compound.
Anyway, I use a 6 inch DMT cont. diamond stone, one side is extra course, one is course. This is well used so the course side is rather fine now.
I use the coarser grit to establish a burr on both sides with forth and back strokes, do single edge leading strokes then with the same angle alternating sides on the same sone first, then to the finer stone until I can cut thin paper easily (and hopefully shave too). Watch the pressure, I find that's crucial!!
That's it. I then, and only then, go to the strop to finish.
My point is that the goal should be to be able to shave somewhat with the finer stone of the two I use. I find these videos from James Helm not only entertaining but very, very helpfull. I love his easy way of sharpening and I have copied it for me, I just use a bit a different technique of knife holding but the principle of 2 stones and a strop is the same:
http://helmforge.blogspot.ca/2010/11/how-to-sharpen-knife-blade-to-shaving.html
I am by no means a sharpening expert nor can I achieve a shaving edge consistently yet but what I have learned over the last 2 years (yes, I know, 2 years and not shaving yet ??) is the simpler, the better, not necessarily the cheaper the better. A good example is stopping compound.
Anyway, I use a 6 inch DMT cont. diamond stone, one side is extra course, one is course. This is well used so the course side is rather fine now.
I use the coarser grit to establish a burr on both sides with forth and back strokes, do single edge leading strokes then with the same angle alternating sides on the same sone first, then to the finer stone until I can cut thin paper easily (and hopefully shave too). Watch the pressure, I find that's crucial!!
That's it. I then, and only then, go to the strop to finish.
My point is that the goal should be to be able to shave somewhat with the finer stone of the two I use. I find these videos from James Helm not only entertaining but very, very helpfull. I love his easy way of sharpening and I have copied it for me, I just use a bit a different technique of knife holding but the principle of 2 stones and a strop is the same:
http://helmforge.blogspot.ca/2010/11/how-to-sharpen-knife-blade-to-shaving.html
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2012
- Messages
- 19
Hey,your method sounds dead on! You're right-its all about the burr! Sounds like you are doing with the two stones the same steps as me with the 220 and 400 grits. The boards I am currently using are about a year old so they last for me. I guess when they wear out, I will throw them away and make new ones rather than going over the top with new paper. It is important that they are perfectly flat. I always use a pull stroke with these boards. Be sure to get the wet and dry type sandpaper made for metal. It really doesn't wear out very fast-It is made to last and be washed out and reused. Cheaper and better! I have a wooden box full of stones, but now I only use them to establish an edge on a really dull knife. Usually, after this my knives never see the stones again, just the strops. I strop often and sharpen less. Really saves the knife steel! If I need to establish an edge on a new or really dull knife, I sometimes sharpen on a medium Arkansas to establish the edge and then go to the boards: 400, 600 then strop. All my knives and axes pop hair! I actually started using these boards for some Scandinavian knives I have, not because it was the cheap way out, but because I was looking for someting to cut fast so that I could grind away the secondary bevels quickly and with less mess. For that I used coarser paper, like a piece of 120 belt sander belt. You could do up a board with this on both sides if you've got some serious removal to do, but probably would'nt want to go that route with a pocket knife. It would remove too much metal. What you are doing sounds great, just a different way to the same place. When using stones, I too prefer trying to get to the shaving stage on just the stones and then go to the strop. Thanks for the website info-I'll check it out. There's certainly more than one way to skin a cat, er, sharpen a knife Its really all about what works for each individual. There is no single "right" way. I have been sharpening knives for about 35 years and have tried a lot of stuff-all kinds of stones, diamond and otherwise, sharpening jigs like Lanskys, Smiths etc. and this method works best for me-especially for edge maintenance, but I haven't tried everything! Keep up the good work and stay sharp my friend
Its really all about what works for each individual. There is no single "right" way. I have been sharpening knives for about 35 years and have tried a lot of stuff-all kinds of stones, diamond and otherwise, sharpening jigs like Lanskys, Smiths etc. and this method works best for me-especially for edge maintenance, but I haven't tried everything! Keep up the good work and stay sharp my friend
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 1,647
When you sharpen your Scandis, do you do only edge trailing as well?
With Scandis my sharpening is a bit different too. I recently started to use sandpaper on a thick leather strop. I produce a slightly convex bevel with this but it works very good. In the field you could maintain the edge with a stone (more like a microbevel) until you are back home and have sandpaper handy.
I find maintenance of a scandi quite difficult on a flat medium, in contrast to most others that state that a scandi is very easy to sharpen?!
With Scandis my sharpening is a bit different too. I recently started to use sandpaper on a thick leather strop. I produce a slightly convex bevel with this but it works very good. In the field you could maintain the edge with a stone (more like a microbevel) until you are back home and have sandpaper handy.
I find maintenance of a scandi quite difficult on a flat medium, in contrast to most others that state that a scandi is very easy to sharpen?!
When people say a Scandi is 'easy' to sharpen, they mean it's easy to match the edge angle because the bevel is large enough to rest the knife on. For a lot of people (including me), it is the first kind of knife that they got really sharp. A lot of this is due to the very acute edge angles, usually no more than 25 degrees inclusive.
However, it is probably the most labor intensive grind to sharpen (assuming a flat bevel to a zero edge). A lot of metal to remove on those big bevels. Convexing or micro-bevelling the edge would help this, but I insist on keeping the edge flat to a zero edge because I think it gives a slight advantage in wood cutting (cuts like a paring chisel). They micro-chip or roll fairly easily (mine seem to be at 20 degrees inclusive) and larger chips have taken me hours on an 800 grit waterstone to restore the edge. This was the inspiration to get EEC and EC DMT Diasharps
However, it is probably the most labor intensive grind to sharpen (assuming a flat bevel to a zero edge). A lot of metal to remove on those big bevels. Convexing or micro-bevelling the edge would help this, but I insist on keeping the edge flat to a zero edge because I think it gives a slight advantage in wood cutting (cuts like a paring chisel). They micro-chip or roll fairly easily (mine seem to be at 20 degrees inclusive) and larger chips have taken me hours on an 800 grit waterstone to restore the edge. This was the inspiration to get EEC and EC DMT Diasharps
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2012
- Messages
- 19
Awestib, It depends on whether or not I am using a stone. If I am using the boards/strops I always edge trail to avoid damage to the sandpaper/leather. With stones, you can go either way. I find it is pretty easy to maintain the edge as long as you get rid of any secondary bevel first so that the bevel lies flat on the stone. I actually use my fingertips to press the bevel flat against the stone or board as I sharpen, alternating sides. If you are going convex, this may be where the difficulty lies, because what makes it so easy to sharpen is the flat bevel that you can hold against the stone or board. It should be possible to maintain a flat bevel with either stones or boards as long the stones or boards are completely flat and you keep it pressed down while sharpening. Having no secondary bevels works best for green woodworking. Working with seasoned wood like making a hickory axe handle, not so much. For working in green wood (what it is designed for) the Scandi grind has no equal (imho)