EBAY and PayPal fees will be JUMPING to 12% on May 1st

Discussion in 'Art In Stone' started by Redrummd, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. Redrummd


    May 21, 2007
    I am having a lot of trouble typing this start to a thread as I do not like to feel the way I feel now. I feel angry and I do not like that. I try to keep my costs reasonable but effective May 1 the cost of Ebay and PayPal fees will be very close to 12%.

    Here is how Ebay is trying to spin this as "good news":


    Up to 150 FREE listings* every month—pay a final value fee only when you sell.

    Dear redrummd1,

    As an eBay seller, you're in the best possible position to reach the millions of buyers flocking to the world's largest marketplace—many of them looking for just what you're selling. Updates coming this spring will make it easier than ever for you to cash in on that opportunity.

    New: Get up to 150 FREE listings* per month and final value fees as low as 4% with your Basic Store subscription

    Now eBay's dramatically reducing the upfront cost to sell for Store sellers. Starting May 1, with eBay's new everyday rate plans, you'll get up to 150 FREE listings* per month —no insertion fees, Auction-style or fixed price—with your Basic Store subscription. So you can load up the inventory—you pay a final value fee only when you sell.

    Plus, the final value fees for Stores will be streamlined to just 5 competitive category-based rates as low as 4% (and never more than 9%)—regardless of how you sell.

    All collectables will be in the top 9% rate plus the cost of the "Basic Store subscription" which is $15.95 a month I believe. PayPal adds on about another 3%.

    So, if I list a knife for $212. over $25. will go to Ebay/PayPal! That means I would get $187. Hmmmm..... Wholesale for the Silver Nickel Buck 110 $52.; shop supplies since I switched to nearly all made in the USA supplies $35. per knife average; decent stone is averaging about $35. for knives I was listing at $212. Get out the calculator and I add costs to do my lowest cost works at $122.

    So, $187. minus $122. leaves me with $65. for an average of 8 hours of work or about $8.12 an hour. If I move my lowest costs works to $220. I make $9.12 an hour. No wait - I forgot to take out the 12% of the $8.00 price increase - 96 cents. 96 cents divided by 8 hours is 12 cents so I would make $9.00 an hour.

    Okay this is too hard - I think I should make at least $12. an hour for my lowest cost works, so $96. Now add the basic knife cost which I just calculated to be $122. which gives me a fixed price of $218. So lets add on the new fees- 12% x $218. dollars gives me $244.16.

    So I should list my lowest cost works at $245. and Ebay/PayPal would get 12% which I calculate to be $29.40. Something is not right here. $245. minus $29.40 is $215.60 and I figured $218. would be needed to pay myself a meager $12. an hour. I hate figuring percentages. Okay lets just try for opening bids at $249. and the EVILBAY fees would be $29.88 so lets round that to $30. and wow I get to keep $219. and make $12. an hour.

    Now even my lowest cost knives like the Peanuts will need to start at $175. on Ebay.

    I wonder how many 1st time buyers are going to be willing to pay $175. for a Peanut or $249. for a Buck 110. I feel like Ebay has just destroyed my ability to be able to get the first time buyers for sure and people who do not get my email or read my posts here will think I am gouging them when all of the money will be going to EVILBAY.
  2. digdeep


    Mar 19, 2005
    Even worse when you add on the shipping costs.

    Seems like there is no additional costs to ebay and paypal themselves for providing this service. Basically their job is to collect money. They just want more of it. :grumpy:
  3. richard thurman

    richard thurman

    Nov 9, 2005
    and that is why I left ebay and found some one just like ebay but no listing fees. I wont put there name in just I dont want to get ding.
  4. Redrummd


    May 21, 2007
    digdeep - Yikes I was so upset I forgot to add shipping with insurance. The shipping adds $12. to a $250 knife shipped in a flat rate box and EVILBAY's 12% makes that $13.44. That moves my Ebay asking price to $260 to $265 for me to make $12 an hour......
  5. Redrummd


    May 21, 2007
    Richard - The usual Forum rules do not apply in my forum. You can talk about other sites and even pricing of specific knives in this forum. Heck I totally trashed Ebay already! if I am wrong I would be the only one getting a warning and heck I haven't had one of those in many years! :D
  6. dfsutton


    Mar 21, 2009
    Wow. I didn't realize that the fees on Ebay were so bad. What is this other alternative that was hinted at?
  7. hohenstreetroa


    May 22, 2010
    I guess I am two-faced, because although I buy & sell on feeBay all the time, I still hate it! I have THOUSANDS of reasons ($'s) to dislike them but they have thousands of reasons ($'s) to love us!
  8. richard thurman

    richard thurman

    Nov 9, 2005
    ok. there is a site that looks just like ebay. if you put ebay on one screen and the other one on a 2nd sreen. you get blind folded and we spin them around. now we have removed both of there names you cant tell the difference. the other site is called Ioffer.com.
    ebay will not allow any kind of switchblade to be sold on there site. I am selling nothing but switchblades on there site. when I sell one they bill me by the month and ask me where the money is at. ebay will not let you put up kkk stuff. they will. I have seen other people add selling it. there is no listing fees at all. you can put up as many pictures as you want too. way back in the day I had a ebay store and I was running the auction site too. they kept rasing the store fees. I found out about this site and I started running both sites. my sales took off and I shut down ebay and went with them. they dont give a damm about paypal. you get your money any way you want. I put in the adds I only take money orders. try them out want do you have to lose.
  9. kansa


    Mar 8, 2010
    Hi Mike, I hear and feel your frustration as a seller. Newbies or 1st time buyers is what keeps your business growing along with the Old Faithful who enjoy your amaizing talents of Art. Maybe someone would be interested in creating a 100% Knife Auction website with 4% to 7% sales fees plus a small listing fee 25 cents. It is possible to compete with Ebay, I have never sold on Ebay because of their fees.
    Penny & I have been a grower & seller of Daylilies on "The Lily Auction" for 12 years and the owner Mike Longo of the website has a very nice home in Hawaii. We also sell at Farmers Markets and yard sell during bloom season. The economy and extreme drought has effected our business the last couple years, but will keep growing what we love to do. Hoping someday to take early retirement but glad we have full time jobs. I think the future will be much brighter in 3 to 5 years.
    Later Gene Stormann
  10. Redrummd


    May 21, 2007
    I lost sleep over all this last night. Here is what kept me awake and still is eating at me now.

    As a business I also need to pay the full cost of Social Security. No wonder small businesses have such a high failure rate. Now the States seem to have convinced the Senate and President that I need to charge State Sales taxes on my sales which in Gig Harbor Washington 9% (actually 9.8%). So once our State adds 9% and I add the 15.3% I pay to social security that is a whopping 33.6% before I make cent and then I pay Federal Taxes on what I do make. If I was in the highest tax bracket of about 39% that would mean that 72.6% of any dollar over the actual fixed costs of making the knife goes to others before I get to keep a whopping 27.4% to spend. At a charge rate of $12. An hour I get to spend about $3.28 cents and the Senate and President want to RAISE the taxes!

    I like doing what I am doing but it sure seems like I am working for nothing right now.
  11. jstn

    jstn Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 27, 2012
    What Ebay is doing is ridiculous. I hope all of this comes back and bites them adn they lose a ton of people. Maybe they will change their policy back, although that is likely wishful thinking.
  12. richard thurman

    richard thurman

    Nov 9, 2005
    that is just it. ioffer is just like ebay and they are just as big. there is no listing fees and I think there commission is 5% but let me check on that.
  13. richard thurman

    richard thurman

    Nov 9, 2005
    I just checked. if the item sells $25.00 up to $99.00 there is a 5% fee and that is the highest fee after that it goes somrthing like 1.5 %
    how can you beat that??
  14. liamstrain

    liamstrain Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 16, 2013
    Redrummd - I only saw fee updates for pictures if you did not have a store subscription, and a change to the maximum fee value. It doesn't look like most of the circumstance you described above would actually happen. I don't see the 9% collectible rate anywhere... just the standard 4%
  15. zImsKee


    Jan 15, 2012
    Seems like Ioffer sells knock offs and junk knives. Dont know why any knifemaker would want to list with that website.
  16. Redrummd


    May 21, 2007
  17. liamstrain

    liamstrain Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 16, 2013
    Ah - I see now. Thanks. That page was hiding from me when I was digging around earlier.

  18. kansa


    Mar 8, 2010
    Hi Mike, you hit the nail on the head when you said "business". When a large % of your competition on the internet is not a business they collect 90 cents + on the dollar. As a Sole Proprietor Nursery business I just finished my 2012 taxes with all my writeoffs and self employed Social Security, Federal, State Taxes local Sales Tax and sellers fees we made 52 cents on the dollar. The President should exempt small business to a 20% Flat Tax and let the American Entrepreneur's create jobs to get this great country back on its feet. Later Gene
    02Knight likes this.
  19. richard thurman

    richard thurman

    Nov 9, 2005
    I sell knock off and junk and name brands too. I want to sell to every one. I just sold a hand made buck style knife and with shipping $97.00.
  20. Redrummd


    May 21, 2007
    I have run some numbers to see if I am correct but the fact that just the 12% Ebay/PayPal fees are charged on the knife components: stone, knife, shop consumables, and even the shipping is important as when I put a knife on my website these added costs cease to exist.
    Here is the cost breakdown for a Brass Buck 110 with one of my lower cost stones such as African Tiger Eye. This stone is lower cost as I bought over 200 pounds of it in a big deal. It has no fractures and there is very little waste as the slabs are just a bit wider than the 110 scales.
    My costs:
    ** Brass Buck 110 Knife $37.85
    *** Tiger Eye $28.00
    **** Shop consumables $40.27
    Shipping/Insurance $11.35
    Total material costs - $117.47
    8 hours labor @12. An hour $96.00
    Total fixed costs- $213.47
    Ebay/PayPal 12% adds $25.61
    Ebay opening bid - $239.08

    ** Knife cost includes the zippered pouch and shipping cost to my shop.
    *** Stone includes a mark up for travel to shows and mining and time spent buying stone.
    **** Shop fees include utilities, diamond blades, grinding, sanding and polish supplies (ect). In 2012, this averaged $35.27 in per knife. I add $5. for the large knives and lower $5. for the small knives. I pay no rent or taxes as my shop is on our property and fully paid for.

    On my website I would list this knife for $260. And still offer a 10% discount to repeat customers. So this knife would sell for $234. PayPal would cost me $7.02 so I would receive $226.98.
    Knife income - $226.98
    Knife fixed costs- $117.47
    Profit- $109.52 for 8 hours work or $13.68 an hour.

    If I can move potential buyers to my website they can buy the knife for $5. less and I can make $1.68 per hour more.

    My plan would be to only post my lowest costs knives on Ebay and list the higher cost knives on my website. I believe I can note my costs and the fact that I do have a website that my higher cost knives are sold on without breaking any Ebay rules. I will start taking a close up photo of just the knife identification card which clearly lists my website. This will hopefully help new collectors to find my website and hopefully continue to support my work.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2013

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