Ebay damascus steel. How to spot a good deal?

T

theinexplicablefuzz

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Nov 19, 2012
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Hey everyone,
this is my first thread posting, and i'm a little new to the site, so if i've overlooked something, or posted in the wrong forum i apologize in advance.
I've been Using a roommate's Ginsu knife set for the past few years because they totally outclass the cheap koch messer and faberware knives that i was given for college, but at the end of the month, we'll be moving out and going our separate ways. Rather than go back to my old nearly useless knives, i thought i'd shop around for a quality blade or set of blades that will last me the rest of my life.

I found several sets nice looking damascus knives on ebay, and i was hoping someone on the site might have an idea as to whether or not it's a good deal, and teach me how to recognize the difference between a good deal and a rip-off.

most listings claim that the knives are damascus steel made in pakistan using a blend of 15n20 and 1095 with a layer of nickel, heated to 56 or 57 HRC. here's a pic.

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I only have a cursory understanding of what that means. I've heard that 15n20 is a tool steel and can be good for making blades, and that nickel can reduce wear resistance.

I was also looking into these tramontina blades. Tomthebaker posted a rave http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1008352-Unbelievably-inexpensive-but-very-good-chef-knife-set! last month.
 
Generally speaking, if its on ebay and from pakistan, its not a good deal. Dont waste your time. Super thick and soft.
 
If it's made in pakistan and on ebay for a "deal" then you are probably going to be sorely disappointed; just my 2 cents. A decent pattern welded chef knife should by it self be one or two hundred, and many are in the three to four range.
 
I'd rather spend my money on one quality chef's knife, look for thin (convex ground) knives, thin is +/- 2.4mm. High hardness means getting a sharper edge, and better edge retention. Look for blade's with rockwell C hardness of 60+.
 
IMHO, spend $50 and get 5 or 6 Old Hickory kitchen knives. They are solid enough that you will have them forever. Slowly add higher quality knives as you go. There are several stores on eBay that are mostly kitchen knives, old and new, from every country.
If you see a knife you like, look in the verbage for steel type, grind type(i like convex or hollow grind), and rockwell hardness. If it is not listed, ask yourself "What are they trying to hide?"
Have you looked at Gator97's site, zknives.com. good reviews of kitchen knives and some very good articles about knives, knife steel, sharpening, and knife design. good place to check what the wonder steel in the ad really is.
the old sailor
 
Take a look at the GLOBAL set of knives.

Their G and GF series knives are pretty top notch.
Their Cromova 18 steel is pretty nice, and holds an edge similar to 154cm, IMHO.
Any Damascus steel kitchen cutlery you find on E-bay is more likely then not, going to greatly disappoint you. As previously states, stay away from E-bay and Pakistani made knives.
Rockwell Hardness of 60+ is desirable, anything less will probably not be as effective in the same price range.

Enjoy.
 
Pakastan has made a big investment in damascus and mostly its junk, we see it in folding and hunting knives all the time, there are stories of seperation of laminations, rusting beneath the surface and other issues with doing a poor forging job. Unless you want a show piece and are willing to pay quite a bit, I would stick with a good steel such as 440c or ATS 34 in stainless or a high carbon steel. These will give you alot more performance for your $$.
 
Sounds like you already know... That if it is to good to be true. it is CRAP! :thumbdn:

God Bless and good luck on finding some good blades!
Randy
 
Check out edenavia004x on ebay. It's pricey but is the real deal. The guys a retired postmaster and is trustworthy.
 
I have a "Damascus" knife blank from Pakistan (off eBay). Junk!

Richard J., the paper wheel guru refuses to sharpen knives made in Pakistan - not worth the effort to get an acceptable edge.

"Damascus" or more correctly pattern welded knives look good, but I see no particular advantage. Japanese knives, like Kai Shun, that are layered with the cutting edge protected by softer steels are nice. My wife likes her Shun.

My best knife is a tool steel Bob Kramer. Nothing else cuts like it. Next best in performance is a Mora Frost boning knife.
 
Ummm, I think that there might be a couple of knives that slot in between the Kramer and the Frost. :rolleyes:
Bernoulli said:
I have a "Damascus" knife blank from Pakistan (off eBay). Junk!

Richard J., the paper wheel guru refuses to sharpen knives made in Pakistan - not worth the effort to get an acceptable edge.

"Damascus" or more correctly pattern welded knives look good, but I see no particular advantage. Japanese knives, like Kai Shun, that are layered with the cutting edge protected by softer steels are nice. My wife likes her Shun.

My best knife is a tool steel Bob Kramer. Nothing else cuts like it. Next best in performance is a Mora Frost boning knife.
Click to expand...
 
jdm61 said:
Ummm, I think that there might be a couple of knives that slot in between the Kramer and the Frost. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are, but not that I use in my kitchen. My modified Jernbolaget chef's knife would be a close third followed by an Ito Chef and several Kai 9900 series knives - all about the same quality as Victorinox, but with better handles (except the Ito Chef)
 
Wait...do you actually have a KRAMER as in hand made selling for several thousand dollars or a Zwilling copy?
Bernoulli said:
I'm sure there are, but not that I use in my kitchen. My modified Jernbolaget chef's knife would be a close third followed by an Ito Chef and several Kai 9900 series knives - all about the same quality as Victorinox, but with better handles (except the Ito Chef)
Click to expand...
 
Yes I do. I use it daily.

I read about Mr. Kramer in Cook's Illustrated. I lived in Portland and traveled to Seattle frequently. I owed a friend a BIG favor. I stopped in to Mr. Kramer's workshop and he graciously allowed me to pay monthly.

This was maybe six or seven years ago. Cook's Illustrated had the cost at $325. By the time I got there (several months after the review) the price had gone to $525 and the waiting list was two years. At the end of a year or so, the knife was paid for. Mr. Kramer emailed me and said he'd caught up and he'd be happy to send it to my friend - which he did.

A couple of years later, my friend told me that both he and his wife were uncomfortable with the knife (the use, nothing else). He asked if he could give it back. Of course I said "sure". Most, if not all, of my friends' kitchen knives were gifts from me. Their favorite is a Boye 6" chef's knife (dendritic steel).

I am a user. Over the years, I have had many knives. I have never had one like my Bob Kramer. It works so well, that it has made my kitchen safer. Precision cutting, effortless cutting, edge retention - all on a level I was unaware was possible. I feel a bit sorry for the investors who buy his knives now and will get only the pleasure of value appreciation.
 
I think that more people actually use Kramer knives than you might think. But you may be right about those who buy during the auctions, especially since he has been on TV so much..
Bernoulli said:
Yes I do. I use it daily.

I read about Mr. Kramer in Cook's Illustrated. I lived in Portland and traveled to Seattle frequently. I owed a friend a BIG favor. I stopped in to Mr. Kramer's workshop and he graciously allowed me to pay monthly.

This was maybe six or seven years ago. Cook's Illustrated had the cost at $325. By the time I got there (several months after the review) the price had gone to $525 and the waiting list was two years. At the end of a year or so, the knife was paid for. Mr. Kramer emailed me and said he'd caught up and he'd be happy to send it to my friend - which he did.

A couple of years later, my friend told me that both he and his wife were uncomfortable with the knife (the use, nothing else). He asked if he could give it back. Of course I said "sure". Most, if not all, of my friends' kitchen knives were gifts from me. Their favorite is a Boye 6" chef's knife (dendritic steel).

I am a user. Over the years, I have had many knives. I have never had one like my Bob Kramer. It works so well, that it has made my kitchen safer. Precision cutting, effortless cutting, edge retention - all on a level I was unaware was possible. I feel a bit sorry for the investors who buy his knives now and will get only the pleasure of value appreciation.
Click to expand...
 
To get back to the original question, although Bob Kramer makes beautiful "Damascus" knives, I remain unconvinced that there is any real advantage there other than looks. I use an Ito Chef daily as well. I've had it about 30 years. I think they cost $17 now. It's the design with the holes and longitudinal ridge to make vegetables (especially potatoes) peel away from the blade. It holds an edge well and works as advertised. The only pattern welded type blade I use is a Shun "ultimate" utility knife. The jury's out on that one, but I don't think it will survive the cut. Not that it's not good steel. The design doesn't seem to work for me.

I think that, for the money, you can get superior knives, either stainless or carbon steel.
 
You are correct. There is no advantage other than looks.
Bernoulli said:
To get back to the original question, although Bob Kramer makes beautiful "Damascus" knives, I remain unconvinced that there is any real advantage there other than looks. I use an Ito Chef daily as well. I've had it about 30 years. I think they cost $17 now. It's the design with the holes and longitudinal ridge to make vegetables (especially potatoes) peel away from the blade. It holds an edge well and works as advertised. The only pattern welded type blade I use is a Shun "ultimate" utility knife. The jury's out on that one, but I don't think it will survive the cut. Not that it's not good steel. The design doesn't seem to work for me.

I think that, for the money, you can get superior knives, either stainless or carbon steel.
Click to expand...
 
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