ebay fixed blade prices

....I hear what your saying...if someone can convince me it is ethical that you have to open a sealed box to find out it is a Taylor Licence knife made in USA yesterday and being promoted from "the old Ellenville Schrade works" and is simply a reproduction Walden Everlastingly Sharp...and you are not allowed to talk about such things for fear of someone spitting their dummy out of the cot and into their Potty because you enlightened some poor blighter who is being conned...THEN...I have a real problem with the ethics of members who would allow it....and in the words of the great Groucho Marx.."".I dont want to join any club that would have me as a member""! Hoo Roo
 
Like Larry says there does seem to be an ethical issue involved. There should be no harm in discussing differences between Taylor Brands and the older Ellenville Schrades. I for one would certainly like to keep in touch with any old info or new info to help myself and others know exactly what we have.
When I fist started collecting I purchased a 153 UH I had no idea it was a Taylor Brand offshore made knife. I sold it immediatley. Even a novice or new collector should be able to tell easily exactly what he is getting. There is obviously a huge difference between the two to a collector. The waters appear more muddy now than they did then !!!
Regards Tim
 
That is one of the main reasons I have reviewed the TBLLC and other copies that have come my way, to compare the manufacturing details to the original Imperial Schrades so that people worldwide, who care to, can come here and read about them and see the differences for themselves. If I had the resources, I'd buy examples of all of them just for this purpose. I am yet to see a copy that can not be told from an original, other than in a blurry eBay picture of an erzatz Schrade package. I fell for this one myself not long ago.

I will say this. While the first Taylor packaging did purposely and closely mimic the original Schrade packaging, right down to the American flag, Taylor has changed his packaging to a newer unique design that can be discerned from the Imperial Schrade packaging. It is frustrating that the first packaging is still out there being sold by eBay sellers who do try to pull the wool over buyer's eyes, but that is the sellers now, not Taylor. And SMKW is to thank for using the original Walden tubes and the Walden inserts with only minor and hard to see changes. At least with those "Walden" knives, they are American made by Camillus and Bear and Son, and are of better quality than the imports I have seen to date.

On that note, if anyone snags a chinese copy that I have not reviewed and wants to post an honest comparison review so that we can see the detail differences, please do so. Or send me the knife and I will.

Michael

Edit: To further give the "Debil" his due, Taylor is beginning to have "China" tangstamped on his blades, tiny, but it is there.
 
...have to disagree Michael as I am referring to the Walden Tube models and not the Taylor Chinese productions which are far easier for the inexperienced to understand because there is no USA on the tang. I will accept your view that the tubes are the original tubes even though I have both and there appears to be discrepancies,however they are not original Walden inserts and for the new collector who does not wish to break the sticky and open the tube and bend the contents to get it out just to find out it is a Taylor licence reproduction which was never made at Ellenville as is usually claimed.No hint whatsoever on the outside which, if they are proud of their product and not simly duping collectors,one would assume any self respecting maker would be glad to announce.
We know that there was guarantee wording on the outside which id not there now but how is a new chum collector supposed to know that?
I also have both and I believe the Camillus reproduction with inconsistant size liners is not an exact replica but thats is purely my opinion.
People are paying for a Walden Vintage knife and without this packaging allowing sellers to take advantage of them it could not happen.
I have also had sellers advise me they were duped when they bought and are simply on selling the same way!!!
The fact is this is just the tip of the ice berg because if nobody gives voice at this stage you will have more "genuine" reproductions USA appearing not only for folders but also fixed blades perhaps in Clampaks so you cant open them without destroying the "collector" value. See what your genuine USA knives are worth competing with repo USA and appearantly genuine knives after enough people have been burned. We all know there will always be certain sellers who wilfully misdescribe to make a quick buck and the product packaging is HELPING them do it. Sorry to go on..however I never use 5 words when 10 will suffice. Hoo Roo.
 
Oneday in many years time I may wish to sell my geniune USA Schrades. If many reproductions of these knives flood the market then my rare Schrades will by then possibly be worth almost nothing except to a very small select group of experienced people who have kept themself well informed and abreast of the changes. That is where a forum like this can play a major role!!!!
As a result the more information and publicity that is on this forum and elsewhere regarding the differences the better it will be for all of us who collect the geniune article!!!!
Regards Tim
 
Its been noted in several threads that Bear is making a U.S.A. made version of the Sharpfinger. They are also making virtual copies of the 156OT Little Finger (their Invicible Skinner), the PH1 (their Drop Point Hunter), the PH2 (their Pro Skinner). These are being made in several handle materials, including India Stag. The Little Finger and PH1 clones are also available with Damascus blades. Bear also made the Keen Kutter PH1 & PH2 clones for SMKW. The micarta handled versions of these even had the contour in the handle up near the bolster. I haven't seen anything to indicate that they are paying anything to Taylor on these. At least they are U.S.A. made. I wonder, with Bear making the Walden line for SMKW, if we can anticipate the Sharpfinger or any of these other U.S.A. made fixed blades by Bear showing up with the Schrade name on them through some kind of deal with Taylor and SMKW?
 
You bet there will Barry why would anyone buy them unless they THINK they are buying the Ellenville Schrade. Still so much supply of the original product, however the clones have box and paperwork and look like a pristine mint original and so they buy for their collections.Most people buying a user turf the box and these "New" schrades are hardly offering any guarantees of loss replacement.There's more than mud clouding the waters for future Schrade collecting and given enough time and clones the old product wiil have little significance except to us die-hards. I dont agree that the clones will ever achieve the quality of the original but you will see 'exotic abalone, stag, faux tortoise shell, mother of pearl ,scales and handles to attract buyers. The quality of the steel and finish well who knows ? This is all without the Chinese clones which are propably there to entice you to buy USA product no matter where in USA it is made. They obviously have connections as people are trying to protect what they are all about and intimidating those that question.....Hoo Roo
 
Bear probably has some sort of agreement with Taylor allowing them to produce these clones under the Bear name. I would say that any Bear made knife produced for Taylor as a Schrade is highly preferable over a Chinese made knife. I might actually consider buying a Bear made Old Timer or Uncle Henry if Taylor contracted out to them. Would it ever be the same as an Ellenville Schrade? No, but its better than supporting a knife made by Chinese workers paid $1.25 an hour.

I am a relatively new collector and I have seen several sellers passing off newer production knives as old stock. Obviously its crappy for them to do this, but I don't think you can blame it on the manufacturer. I have spent time at knife forums reading and learning what to look for. The newer productions are pretty easy to spot once you know they are out there.
 
I assume you're referrring to the Schrade Waldens, not the UH or OT patterns. The new Old Timers and Uncle Henry patterns are easy to spot, but they're Taylors. Ones like this Trapper are confusing to me. I get suspicious when I see a Schrade Walden that looks this new and shiny.


STAMP LOOKS GOOD!

I think it stinks whoever produces them, are allowed to put the replica Schrade Walden tang stamp on. They're nice looking knives, but IMO they're fraudulent.
To me an old Schrade Walden has a story behind it that means something. Especially to someone who made the old Waldens at the old factory. The newer production knife has a story all right, but a somewhat sad one.
What would you rather have, an old Ted Williams baseball card or a Barry Bonds? I'll take authentic, not fraud. :barf:
 
The knife you show looks like an authentic Ellenville, it has S-W NY USA in the stamp. The Bear made knives are just Walden Knife Co. The Camillus made knives say Schrade Walden, but not NY I believe. They also have the everlastingly sharp etch. Taylor now owns the name & can do what he pleases with it. Whether we approve or not...
 
Looks like it, but I've seen this pattern three or four times lately, and another one in an 880 pattern. They don't have pattern numbers on the back of the master, they don't have shields, and they have pinched bolsters, plus they are always brand spanking new with no documentation or packaging. I've a friend that thought SMKW puts them out, but I don't know. Hence the confusion. At least for me.
 
One way to look at the bear clones is that at least they are U.S.A. made with decent steel (420HC @ 56-58 Rockwell; not the best steel but decent Rockwell IMHO). While I agree with a lot of the issues raised relative to reproductions, if we don't support Bear and Camillus and the few others that are still making decent U.S.A. knives they will all go the way of Schrade. I don't collect Buck knives but they seem to have adopted an interesting strategy for staying in business: they make most of their models in several steels. The average buyer at the Walmart or the big sporting goods chains is only offered the lower end steel; but, those same knives are available in really good steel (and at a higher price) from more specialized outlets. They all look the same to the uninitiated. I suppose this is Buck's way of keeping Walmart happy and offering a high quality knife to those who know the difference.
 
Yes I saw one of the so called Walden trappers in a beautiful decorated (cigar box I think). Seller wanted about $70 us from memory. I asked him if it was real Schrade Walden. He didnt answer my question but he showed me another finished listing where a seller had sold another one the same for close to $200 US.
I was certain then that it was not a Schrade Walden knife made at the Walden Factory but a new knife.
From memory it had WALDEN all over packaging.
Walden is a place, From what I have seen not even Ellenville Schrade put Walden on a knife unless it was made in Walden or specified as a knife commemorating Walden which they had every right to do.
 
G'Day Tim the clones I have: Tang Stamp:Schrade Walden N.Y. U.S.A.
They definately have N.Y. and you can see any number of clones on Ebay because the sellers always show the tang & never the inside blurb that states Under Licence by Taylor Brands....that would ruin the illusion would it not?
Barry couldnt agree more about supporting USA Camillus and Bear..so whats wrong with stating the Camillus name which is equally famous but then they would not be cashing in on this latent demand for Schrade product since closure, would they not?
I say again if you blokes are not sure if they are clones simply because they look "too new", then what hope does average "Fred Nurk" have of getting a genuine "Walden" for his collection and this is only going to get worse as more unscrupulous sellers jump on the band wagon.
P.S. I trust "Fred Nurk" is not a member I apologise to him if he is, and all the little "Nurks"........Hoo Roo
 
Upstream said:
I think one thing that has contributed to this is a seller that was listing this web site as a source of information in his e-bay ads. I noticed a surge in new members watching this site soon after. Rick
Click to expand...

Referencing this forum as a source of information was an excellent way to counter some of the hype & BS that was flying around at that time. The more informed one is the better able to 'filter' the hype and BS.
 
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